Broken Algorithms Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Of course, we already knew the truth. As our club regroups on its road back to our rightful place lording it over all beneath us in Scotland - it was never in any serious doubt. Media outlets the world over have arrived at Ibrox to tell the tale of our remarkable resilience and the wonderful dedication of our support. From America, Holland, France, Japan and more they have come - the message is out there for all to see. Meanwhile, in a tiny corner of northern Europe - the ever-dwindling band of naysayers have never been more of an irrelevance (comprising as they do of some bitter plastics and a tiny handful of tawdry diddies) or more bitter about their failure to kill our greatest of clubs. They placed all their faith in the internet warriors - the IRA writer, the runaway, the disgraced bungler and more - who, in turn, lied to them. In despair, and no sooner had the BTC result damned their heroes, a new breed of Emperors were found - step forward the likes of Suckit, Fuckit and Duckit - to continue the pretence. Must've been the final straw for HMRC, who have now appealed. Bendarroch's taunting took it too far. Enjoy! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Not exactly unexpected, given it was the tax expert on the panel who found in their favour. Wonder how long this will take? As I(And many others) stated at the time, the only winners from the decision announced a few weeks ago will be the respective legal teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnforever1992 Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Another serious misuse of public funds. Will they recover any funds for HMRC? No. There is nothing left in the oldco for a dividend. Will it set a precedent to go after other clubs? No. The original judgment means each case will be treated on merit and take months/years to resolve. Has a point of law been breached with the original judgment? No one has yet noted any. Are HMRC feeling embarrassed by this case and are seeking redress to cover this embarrassment? You decide... ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Seething. They are going to get their money back Tedi! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Another serious misuse of public funds. Will they recover any funds for HMRC? No. There is nothing left in the oldco for a dividend. Will it set a precedent to go after other clubs? No. The original judgment means each case will be treated on merit and take months/years to resolve. Has a point of law been breached with the original judgment? No one has yet noted any. Are HMRC feeling embarrassed by this case and are seeking redress to cover this embarrassment? You decide... Perhaps they think that enforcing the law of the land is important. Perhaps they think that punishing criminal behaviour is important. Perhaps they think that allowing wrongdoing to go unpunished sends a bad message to crooks. Perhaps, Tedi, what you are saying here is tantamount to claiming that, since a bunch of junkies have already sold the jewelery they stole from that old lady, then it would be vindictive to punish them. After all, the jewelery is gone and can't be recovered, eh? Who gains from such public expense? I've said it before and I'll say it again - the issue of Rangers FC's cheating should be secondary here. Yes, anything won by fraud needs to be re-examined, but the real aim here should be David Murray, sitting in a dock and then taking that long G4S van ride to Barlinnie. And the very idea that, out of Rangers or HMRC, it's HMRC that should be embarrassed is just hilarious. One of these organisations has been heavily criticised by judicial figures for dishonesty and obstructiveness in legal proceedings, and it isn't Hector. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Another serious misuse of public funds. As an Ibrox season ticket holder you supported and watched the tax dodging cheating RFC (R.I.P.) dying due to its misuse of public funds (taxes). Will they recover any funds for HMRC? No. There is nothing left in the oldco for a dividend. They most probably will, yes. From the individuals who received EBT's. Will it set a precedent to go after other clubs? No. The original judgment means each case will be treated on merit and take months/years to resolve. That isn't our concern, however, only time will tell, you simply don't know. You sure do post pish. Nobody other than internet bawbags such as you 3 stooges, Ben1, Ben2 and you cares how long it takes. Has a point of law been breached with the original judgment? No one has yet noted any. As above. Are HMRC feeling embarrassed by this case and are seeking redress to cover this embarrassment? You decide... I've decided. As above. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Boyne Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 As an Ibrox season ticket holder you supported and watched the tax dodging cheating RFC (R.I.P.) dying due to its misuse of public funds (taxes). They most probably will, yes. From the individuals who received EBT's. That isn't our concern, however, only time will tell, you simply don't know. You sure do post pish. Nobody other than internet bawbags such as you 3 stooges, Ben1, Ben2 and you cares how long it takes. As above. I've decided. As above. Where you been hiding ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Where you been hiding ? Mind your own brother boyne. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 in the vast majority of cases Rangers were not guilty of tax evasion, in the vast majority of cases those were loans Irrespective of what the lawyers managed to convince other lawyers to believe, in the real world we all know football players do not play for free. I think for the most part the original judgement has to go down as a complete failure on HMRC's side to prove what on the face of it looks like an open and shut case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 If OldCo Rangers are innocent, they've surely nothing to fear in any appeal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The lawyers managed to prove that Rangers operated a clever but legal Tax avoidance scheme, the morality of it may be open to debate, the legality of it is not The dissenting judge and HMRC disagree. It remains to be seen whether the Upper Tier Tribunal will or not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 and here we have it HMRC ask for an appeal, they have not been granted that right nor have they won the appeal and by your reckoning Rangers are already guilty as charged, rather presumptuous aren't we? but also completely incorrect and irrelevant The current judgment stands and is the reality (not what is inside your head), in the vast majority of cases Rangers were not guilty of tax evasion, in the vast majority of cases those were loans I guess we'll see, won't we? Although something tells me that, in the event that the case goes against you this time, we'll miraculously discover that the courts are now somehow fallible and fragile, or maybe even riddled with anti-Rangers bias. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngsy Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Part one is likely true, although I would've thought they might be able to pursue the "loans" from the people who benefitted, no? Part two sounds daft to me, though - there's the small matter of David Murray and all of his confederates, who HMRC clearly believe are due a holiday at Her Majesty's pleasure. A very long holiday indeed, perhaps at the Bar L, pour encourager les autres. All of which is would be well within HMRC's duty to the taxpayer, I imagine. They are supposed to tackle actual, criminal activity, aren't they? You're getting a bit ahead of yourself here in stating that HMRC clearly believe some people should be jailed. As much as i would hope that anyone that has committed fraud is jailed, as it stands there is nothing that suggests those involved with the EBT case committed fraud after the first tier ruling. Also HMRC are only applying for permission to appeal,that's not to say it will be granted. As for pursuing those who benefitted from the loans,isn't it correct that HMRC could only apply to the trusts of those who benefitted after their death? Also any ruling won't impinge on the club so as far as i'm concerned HMRC can carry on pursuing an appeal,getting the verdict overturned though may well be an entirely different proposition. HMRC haven't exactly got a great record in these cases. Wouldn't it be more prudent for HMRC to give their undivided attention on Craig Whyte and his apparently fraudulent dealings than pursue a case that has went against them and which they can't be sure of recovering any money far less winning the case. Edited December 4, 2012 by youngsy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Part one is likely true, although I would've thought they might be able to pursue the "loans" from the people who benefitted, no? Part two sounds daft to me, though - there's the small matter of David Murray and all of his confederates, who HMRC clearly believe are due a holiday at Her Majesty's pleasure. A very long holiday indeed, perhaps at the Bar L, pour encourager les autres. All of which is would be well within HMRC's duty to the taxpayer, I imagine. They are supposed to tackle actual, criminal activity, aren't they? More tax payers money going down the drain, yeeehah. They may well get something out of MIH but i see no reason why a different tribunal would see things differently, has hMRC said on which point they are appealing? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 The lawyers managed to prove that Rangers operated a clever but legal Tax avoidance scheme, the morality of it may be open to debate, the legality of it is not I don't think there is any debate over the morality, at least there shouldn't be anyway. The legality isn't settled yet. Are there not another couple of levels it can go to after this appeal before anything is considered final and lawful/unlawful? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendarroch Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Must've been the final straw for HMRC, who have now appealed. Bendarroch's taunting took it too far. Enjoy! Aye. Goading works wonders. I look forward to HMRC having their arses handed to them a second time. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS-18 ICBM Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 More tax payers money going down the drain, yeeehah. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendarroch Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 More tax payers money going down the drain, yeeehah. They may well get something out of MIH but i see no reason why a different tribunal would see things differently, has hMRC said on which point they are appealing? They have new 'upfront and centre' information from someone they take very seriously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunfellaff Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 So Hector is appealing....in other words protesting the decision....... MON THE PROTESTANTS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I don't think there is any debate over the morality, at least there shouldn't be anyway. The legality isn't settled yet. Are there not another couple of levels it can go to after this appeal before anything is considered final and lawful/unlawful? Inner House of the Court of Session and then UK Supreme Court. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingrodent Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Impressive circling of the wagons from the Rangers boys, here. Lots of gunsmoke and whoopin' and hollerin'. Let's see how it goes down with the courts, shall we? Who knows, maybe HMRC are just chancing their arm or making a good show of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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