Breaking Bad

[The Real Saints]

Considering he claimed earlier to have enjoyed Breaking Bad, I don't think I can recall T_S_A_R making one positive comment about the show.

[renton]

marie will have told the DEA that jesse was staying in their house.

Yeah, but beyond that? It's unlikely that Hank would've told Marie that he was a murdering junkie, is it? Beyond knowing that having Pinkman around was necessary to 'get' Walter, there is no particular reason to suspect him of the crimes we know him to have committed, they don't know that he was cooking meth, or had killed, nothing Marie could tell them would make them suspect he did, he could have interacted with Walt via buying meth, but then the DEA is not going to go after one junkie with a pile of dead junkies and a meth kingpin in his lab to deal with.It's probable that Jesse could slip away - so long as he aovided a high profile.

[T_S_A_R]

Yeah, but beyond that? It's unlikely that Hank would've told Marie that he was a murdering junkie, is it? Beyond knowing that having Pinkman around was necessary to 'get' Walter, there is no particular reason to suspect him of the crimes we know him to have committed, they don't know that he was cooking meth, or had killed, nothing Marie could tell them would make them suspect he did, he could have interacted with Walt via buying meth, but then the DEA is not going to go after one junkie with a pile of dead junkies and a meth kingpin in his lab to deal with.It's probable that Jesse could slip away - so long as he aovided a high profile.

marie knew that jesse was key to bringing down walt and bragged about it to skylar when she went to the car wash thinking hank was under arrest. it's unlikely that she would have held back any information relating to the disappearance of her husband.

jesse also skipped bail which means he will be a wanted man and his prints are on a murder weapon in a meth factory. he's fucked.

[mrcat1990]

Anyone else get a bit of a lump in the throat when Walt was taking his last walk around the meth lab?

An absolutely excellent show and gutted to see it end but it didn't need to go on further.

I know he didn't have a place in the episode but missed Saul a little.

[T_S_A_R]

Considering he claimed earlier to have enjoyed Breaking Bad, I don't think I can recall T_S_A_R making one positive comment about the show.

i really enjoyed the first three seasons but felt it went downhill after that. i found hank and jesse interesting in the first half of the final season but i don't think that carried on in the second half.

i found the final episodes to be pretty ludicrous and i don't think i'm able to suspend my disbelief to the required point to accept walt randomly seeing himself mentioned on tv just after giving himself up then walking outside and finding an unlocked car with key inside which he then drove across america to his home town where he wandered about at will despite being a famous wanted criminal.

the fact that the finale turned on walt being able to park his car in the perfect spot so his gun could fire whilst all his enemies were conveniently standing in the firezone was ludicrous. uncle jack making a bond villain 'im going to kill you but not right now' mistake was weak as well.

[renton]

marie knew that jesse was key to bringing down walt and bragged about it to skylar when she went to the car wash thinking hank was under arrest. it's unlikely that she would have held back any information relating to the disappearance of her husband.

jesse also skipped bail which means he will be a wanted man and his prints are on a murder weapon in a meth factory. he's fucked.

Assuming Marie knew specifics beyond 'Jesse is important to getting Walt', assuming that the APD are proactive in chasing him over skipped bail - likely not, and so as long as he doesn't pop up on the authorities radar, he won't be flagged as having skipped bail, finally, assuming that the prints are usable. Given that, at that point, no one has seen Pinkman in a while and with them having got Walt's body, plus the whole Nazi cartel and one dead Madrigal executive, they'll likely assume that Walt probably dealt with Jesse by sending him to Belize. despite an outstanding arrest warrant, no one looks to hard for Mike after he gets' barrelled either.

It's not like Jesse doesn't have extensive experience of staying low and dodging the authorities. If he's lucky he;'ll just be one more statistic on an APD spreadsheet.

[The OP]

marie knew that jesse was key to bringing down walt and bragged about it to skylar when she went to the car wash thinking hank was under arrest. it's unlikely that she would have held back any information relating to the disappearance of her husband.

jesse also skipped bail which means he will be a wanted man and his prints are on a murder weapon in a meth factory. he's fucked.

I think you can get away with skipping bail if you were being kidnapped and tortured. In fact, you could get away with murder if you were being kidnapped and tortured in a room full of killers with guns, particularly if Mr White's fingerprints are on the trigger of the murder weapon.

When you add the fact that all Marie can provide is hearsay evidence - hearsay evidence amounting to 'My husband told me Jesse could help us catch Walt. He said that he had caught Walt before he died. Apparently Walt then admitted to this murder over the phone and apparently there is stacks of evidence linking the Neo-Nazis to Hank's murder, just as Jesse said' I can't see that Jesse is fucked.

A short term jail stint might be preferable to constant lamming for him, although he'd have to be placed in protection inside or he could face reprisal from the Aryans.

Edited September 30, 2013 by The OP

[T_S_A_R]

I think you can get away with skipping bail if you were being kidnapped and tortured. In fact, you could get away with murder if you were being kidnapped and tortured in a room full of killers with guns, particularly if Mr White's fingerprints are on the trigger of the murder weapon.

When you add the fact that all Marie can provide is hearsay evidence - hearsay evidence amounting to 'My husband told me Jesse could help us catch Walt. He said that he had caught Walt before he died. Apparently Walt then admitted to this murder over the phone and apparently there is stacks of evidence linking the Neo-Nazis to Walt's murder as Jesse said' I can't see that Jesse is fucked.

A short term jail stint might be preferable to constant lamming for him, although he'd have to be placed in protection or he may face reprisal from the Aryans.

he deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail anyway for his part in the murder of drew sharp.

he is going to get a prison sentence just for skipping bail and being unable to account for his money. the fingerprints on the gun are going to be hard to explain as well and even if they can't pin hank's death on him the fact that he is involved will mean he'll get hammered for the other stuff.

[The OP]

he deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail anyway for his part in the murder of drew sharp.

he is going to get a prison sentence just for skipping bail and being unable to account for his money. the fingerprints on the gun are going to be hard to explain as well and even if they can't pin hank's death on him the fact that he is involved will mean he'll get hammered for the other stuff.

You seem to have missed the point where he was being kidnapped and tortured the entire time, after cooperating with two DEA agents.

My understanding is that being unable to account for your money generally results in your money being seized until you are able to account for it, not jail time.

[djchapsticks]

Let's be honest. You're over-analysing an act of fiction in a show which has conclusively ended for good and will never be followed up on. You'll never know Jesse's fate, no matter how much you argue about it or make a point.

For what it's worth, it's the best TV series I've ever had the pleasure to watch, absoultely compelling from the first episode to the last.

If you can't suspend your belief to sit back and enjoy it, then you probably should have chucked it when it started going downhill.....your opinion, not mine. BB was all up and up for me.

[T_S_A_R]

You seem to have missed the point where he was being kidnapped and tortured the entire time, after cooperating with two DEA agents.

cooperating including confessing to multiple murders including a child. one of the biggest plot holes was jesse at no point asking hank what would happen to him after walt was arrested.

i would imagine that if you can't account for your money you will get done with at least tax evasion. they had to have charged him with something to cause him to be bailed out.

[The OP]

they had to have charged him with something to cause him to be bailed out.

Sees plotholes at every opportunity. Decides that there was definitely no plothole here.

The case you are setting out is totally wafer thin. He is by no means 'fucked'. His entire confession has presumably vanished into thin air, unless the Nazis are even stupider than their recent actions suggested. So there is no confession to complicity in murdering a child - just hearsay that 'he was helping Hank'. You can look at it that he still has problems, and Jesse's conscience would always cause him to go emo over Andrea and Walt and Drew Sharp and what have you, but you're acting like he is facing inevitable life imprisonment or some shit to fit with your whole 'That made no sense' M.O., when what we were shown doesn't really support it.

Personally I felt a slight decline at the start of series 5. There were always moments that pushed believability, but they became really common at that stage - the ridiculous 'Magnets bitch' plan working, Walt's MacGuyver style escape from Mike's handcuffs, the train stopping at the exact point required, the simultaneous prison murders and, latterly, Uncle Jack's stupidity, but it generally wasn't enough to ruin my suspension of disbelief. I suppose that my thought is that The Wire and The Sopranos moved at a slower pace which allowed them to build characters and to generally resolve conflicts in a more believable manner. That's not to say BB isn't top tier TV, but that tacked on conclusion I've just written explains why it didn't reach the level of the top two.

Edited September 30, 2013 by The OP

[Stuart]

The man has stopped writing Jesse Pinkman now, so nothing is going to happen to him.

Thoroughly enjoyed that episode. Nice way to end it after the chaos from two episodes before.

Best TV series I've ever watched.

[T_S_A_R]

Sees plotholes at every opportunity. Decides that there was definitely no plothole here.

The case you are setting out is totally wafer thin. He is by no means 'fucked'.

it wasn't a plot hole. he was in custody and then he wasn't and saul told him that walter paid his bail money. makes perfect sense.

the prints on the murder weapon at the meth factory is pretty dodgy.

[The OP]

it wasn't a plot hole. he was in custody and then he wasn't and saul told him that walter paid his bail money. makes perfect sense.

In custody and bailed on what charge?

Edited September 30, 2013 by The OP

[The OP]

The man has stopped writing Jesse Pinkman now, so nothing is going to happen to him.

Thoroughly enjoyed that episode. Nice way to end it after the chaos from two episodes before.

Best TV series I've ever watched.

Put your imaginations away people. Nothing to see here. Turns out that this was a work of fiction created by a person so there is no point in having a hypothetical discussion.

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

TSAR, what are we looking at with your screenshots from the cafe?

There's nothing quite like your completely redundant criticism of the show's plot for giving me an extra appreciation for the writing involved.

[mrcat1990]

Going by TSAR's arguments we should also start questioning how in f**k the Empire in Star Wars had the capital to build a space station the size of a small planet.

[Northsea80]

Going by TSAR's arguments we should also start questioning how in f**k the Empire in Star Wars had the capital to build a space station the size of a small planet.

Twice!

Though I'm sure they got a big insurance claim in after what happened to the first one.

[Newbornbairn]

If TSAR thinks Breaking Bad had plotholes he should stay clear of the History Channel and all their programmes on the so-called "World War II".

Let's start with the bad guys. Battalions of stormtroopers dressed in all black, check. Secret police, check. Determination to brutally kill everyone who doesn't look like them, check. Leader with a tiny villain mustache and a tendency to go into apopleptic rage when he doesn't get his way, check. All this from a country that was ordinary, believable, and dare I say it sometimes even sympathetic in previous seasons.

I wouldn't even mind the lack of originality if they weren't so heavy-handed about it. Apparently we're supposed to believe that in the middle of the war the Germans attacked their allies the Russians, starting an unwinnable conflict on two fronts, just to show how sneaky and untrustworthy they could be? And that they diverted all their resources to use in making ever bigger and scarier death camps, even in the middle of a huge war? Real people just aren't that evil. And that's not even counting the part where as soon as the plot requires it, they instantly forget about all the racism nonsense and become best buddies with the definitely non-Aryan Japanese.

Not that the good guys are much better. Their leader, Churchill, appeared in a grand total of one episode before, where he was a bumbling general who suffered an embarrassing defeat to the Ottomans of all people in the Battle of Gallipoli. Now, all of a sudden, he's not only Prime Minister, he's not only a brilliant military commander, he's not only the greatest orator of the twentieth century who can convince the British to keep going against all odds, he's also a natural wit who is able to pull out hilarious one-liners practically on demand. I know he's supposed to be the hero, but it's not realistic unless you keep the guy at least vaguely human.

So it's pretty standard "shining amazing good guys who can do no wrong" versus "evil legions of darkness bent on torture and genocide" stuff, totally ignoring the nuances and realities of politics. The actual strategy of the war is barely any better. Just to give one example, in the Battle of the Bulge, a vastly larger force of Germans surround a small Allied battalion and demand they surrender or be killed. The Allied general sends back a single-word reply: "Nuts!". The Germans attack, and, miraculously, the tiny Allied force holds them off long enough for reinforcements to arrive and turn the tide of battle. Whoever wrote this episode obviously had never been within a thousand miles of an actual military.

Probably the worst part was the ending. The British/German story arc gets boring, so they tie it up quickly, have the villain kill himself (on Walpurgisnacht of all days, not exactly subtle) and then totally switch gears to a battle between the Americans and the Japanese in the Pacific. Pretty much the same dichotomy - the Japanese kill, torture, perform medical experiments on prisoners, and frickin' play football with the heads of murdered children, and the Americans are led by a kindly old man in a wheelchair.

Anyway, they spend the whole season building up how the Japanese home islands are a fortress, and the Japanese will never surrender, and there's no way to take the Japanese home islands because they're invincible...and then they realize they totally can't have the Americans take the Japanese home islands so they have no way to wrap up the season.

So they invent a completely implausible superweapon that they've never mentioned until now. Apparently the Americans got some scientists together to invent it, only we never heard anything about it because it was "classified". In two years, the scientists manage to invent a weapon a thousand times more powerful than anything anyone's ever seen before - drawing from, of course, ancient mystical texts. Then they use the superweapon, blow up several Japanese cities easily, and the Japanese surrender. Convenient, isn't it?

...and then, in the entire rest of the show, over five or six different big wars, they never use the superweapon again. Seriously. They have this whole thing about a war in Vietnam that lasts decades and kills tens of thousands of people, and they never wonder if maybe they should consider using the frickin' unstoppable mystical superweapon that they won the last war with. At this point, you're starting to wonder if any of the show's writers have even watched the episodes the other writers made.

I'm not even going to get into the whole subplot about breaking a secret code (cleverly named "Enigma", because the writers couldn't spend more than two seconds thinking up a name for an enigmatic code), the giant superintelligent computer called Colossus (despite this being years before the transistor was even invented), the Soviet strongman whose name means "Man of Steel" in Russian (seriously, between calling the strongman "Man of Steel" and the Frenchman "de Gaulle", whoever came up with the names for this thing ought to be shot).

So yeah. Stay away from the History Channel TSAR. Unlike Breaking Bad, they don't even try to make their stuff believable.