Sons' sorrow

[SilverWolfe]

Anyone know when our accounts for 2020 are due to be published?

Should be 31 May 2021

[cameron2000]

Wardrop unsurprisingly saying he doesn’t think he’ll play again this season on his Insta story

[George Parr]

52 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

Wardrop unsurprisingly saying he doesn’t think he’ll play again this season on his Insta story

And at the same time Brian Graham scores to put Thistle top of the league.

[Thommo90]

For those who bought season tickets, you are paying £45 per Dumbarton goal. Wild stuff.

Yet there are weapons on yon Facebook pushing positivity.  

 

[George Parr]

9 hours ago, Thommo90 said:

For those who bought season tickets, you are paying £45 per Dumbarton goal. Wild stuff.

Yet there are weapons on yon Facebook pushing positivity.  

 

The weapons patter is harsh. I know we are all pretty much in agreement that Jim should shortly move on but there's nothing wrong with a bit of diversity of opinion among the support base.

And the FB comments aren't all Aitken's Barmy Army type stuff. Some of the views are reasonable, just not entirely persuasive.

[BallochSonsFan]

10 hours ago, Thommo90 said:

For those who bought season tickets, you are paying £45 per Dumbarton goal. Wild stuff.

Yet there are weapons on yon Facebook pushing positivity.  

 

Not really an argument against buying a season ticket.

If you've got the money and you're willing to pay up front regardless of what happens during a season then buy a season ticket. It's guaranteed money in the bank for the club, although season ticket culture does create cashflow concerns later in a season. If you don't have the money to spend or aren't willing to pay up front without guarantees as to whether it'll be a good or bad season then don't buy a season ticket. Doesnt make anybody a better or worse fan, but if anybody has any doubts about giving the club their money up front then I'd advise them not to buy a season ticket. PAYG still puts money into the club and is still very welcome.

Positivity is fine for fans who want to indulge in it. Its not for me in current circumstances. We've little to be positive about right now. I'd rather fans were realistic at times. Its easy to ignore the problems facing our club on and off the park and to underestimate the scale of the challenge we're facing. There have been times over the past 4-5 years where we've been in serious trouble - far more serious than most fans will ever know. 

[the snudge]

11 hours ago, Thommo90 said:

For those who bought season tickets, you are paying £45 per Dumbarton goal. Wild stuff.

Yet there are weapons on yon Facebook pushing positivity.  

 

Even if we had zero goals and zero points, I'd still have a ST especially during this time. Performances are shite but Duffy is just passing through. 

[Thommo90]

30 minutes ago, BallochSonsFan said:

Not really an argument against buying a season ticket.

If you've got the money and you're willing to pay up front regardless of what happens during a season then buy a season ticket. It's guaranteed money in the bank for the club, although season ticket culture does create cashflow concerns later in a season. If you don't have the money to spend or aren't willing to pay up front without guarantees as to whether it'll be a good or bad season then don't buy a season ticket. Doesnt make anybody a better or worse fan, but if anybody has any doubts about giving the club their money up front then I'd advise them not to buy a season ticket. PAYG still puts money into the club and is still very welcome.

Positivity is fine for fans who want to indulge in it. Its not for me in current circumstances. We've little to be positive about right now. I'd rather fans were realistic at times. Its easy to ignore the problems facing our club on and off the park and to underestimate the scale of the challenge we're facing. There have been times over the past 4-5 years where we've been in serious trouble - far more serious than most fans will ever know. 

Just to clarify, I have a season ticket.  Just highlighting how poor it has been to watch all season.

[lorenzo71]

I was a big supporter of  JD replacing SA and I stand by that decision.2.5 years on and it's time for a change clearly.Of course I hope he can keep us up and the team deserve our support in so doing. But yes after the Peterhead game ,if thats the last one, then he should go.

[BallochSonsFan]

15 minutes ago, Thommo90 said:

Just to clarify, I have a season ticket.  Just highlighting how poor it has been to watch all season.

It has been garbage to watch. I didnt even bother watching the Thistle game.

But £45 per goal for season ticket holders really doesnt mean much. We could have scored loads of goals. We could arguably have scored even less than we have given our terrible striking options. Thats the risk you take paying your money up front.

[The Moonster]

I stay away from that facebook page as much as I can, but I did spy the eternally stupid question "who will we get that would do better?" lobbed on there at the weekend. Acknowledging that Duffy's time is up does not make me responsible for finding his successor. And if there are Dumbarton fans currently watching this absolute mess of a squad and seriously think it's the best we can do, we may as well just call it a day just now and forget bothering with 150 years celebrations.

Watch Duffy's pre-match interview on Saturday with EFTV - the interviewer says something like "You were unlucky not to win at Bayview last time and fully deserved your 3 points at the Rock, you'll be hoping you can have another good performance here and take the points home this time?" and Duffy actually fucking sighed. He then rambled about how East Fife were a tough side and it's a difficult place to go. He just can't bring himself to be positive about our chances as someone might end up expecting something of him. He loves being the wee gave-it-a-good-go guy but ultimately is a loser. He's managed Falkirk, Dundee, Hibs, Brechin, Clyde and Morton and the only honour he's got to his name is a Scottish League 1 title that he won with full time Morton against part time Stranraer (on the last day of the season).

[lorenzo71]

1 minute ago, The Moonster said:

I stay away from that facebook page as much as I can, but I did spy the eternally stupid question "who will we get that would do better?" lobbed on there at the weekend. Acknowledging that Duffy's time is up does not make me responsible for finding his successor. And if there are Dumbarton fans currently watching this absolute mess of a squad and seriously think it's the best we can do, we may as well just call it a day just now and forget bothering with 150 years celebrations.

Watch Duffy's pre-match interview on Saturday with EFTV - the interviewer says something like "You were unlucky not to win at Bayview last time and fully deserved your 3 points at the Rock, you'll be hoping you can have another good performance here and take the points home this time?" and Duffy actually fucking sighed. He then rambled about how East Fife were a tough side and it's a difficult place to go. He just can't bring himself to be positive about our chances as someone might end up expecting something of him. He loves being the wee gave-it-a-good-go guy but ultimately is a loser. He's managed Falkirk, Dundee, Hibs, Brechin, Clyde and Morton and the only honour he's got to his name is a Scottish League 1 title that he won with full time Morton against part time Stranraer (on the last day of the season).

I actually think we have some decent players but they simply haven't gelled or been set up correctly  or been given a real chance(wallace and omar to some extent but certainly the former) and the blame for that lies primarily with the management.I do get the feeling JD is going thru the motions a bit especially when you look at the way he assembled the squad latterly, albeit I don't know the budget or restrictions placed on him.

[Jan Vojáček]

I think the best way to judge a manager is where he leaves us.

Looking back over the past decade or so.

Jim Chapman took over when we were (iirc) 9th in League Two. And left us 10th (again iirc) in League One. That's an improvement.

Alan Adamson took us from the foot of League One to the foot of the Championship. Again an improvement.

Ian Murray took us from the foot of the Championship to seventh. An improvement.

Stevie Aitken took us from seventh in the Championship to ninth in League One. We regressed under his management.

Duffy is going to take us from ninth in League One to (potentially at very best) eighth in League One in 2.5 years and with a squad he built himself. That's stagnation, and it's really disappointing because I thought he would be a solid appointment who would certainly have made us into a decent League One team (in the mould of East Fife or Montrose for example) at the very least.

I think the reality of the situation is starting to hit Duffy. The weird nature of the season meant that a few wins here or there could always get you out of danger, and I think he believed we'd do that. But we haven't gone on a run at any stage of, say, five or six matches without defeat (3 wins 3 draws would've been ideal for example) and now we're staring at three games where we need to win at least twice to have any hope of avoiding ninth. For what it's worth if we end up in the playoffs then we will go down - and I think the same could be said for Clyde. The standard in the league this season is really poor.

It's too late to make a change now, but the club needs a new manager next season and some fresh ideas. At the moment some fans seem to act like we're a club who should be fighting it out with Brechin, Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers at the wrong end of League Two. And that we're fortunate to even be in League One - and I just cannot get my head around that lack of ambition. Why are East Fife much better than us? Why are Montrose much better than us? Why are Peterhead seven points clear of us having rebuilt their entire squad with a collection of mainly regens and jobbers over the summer? 

[Nowhereman]

I see that the league table on the club website has East Fife in fourth place. I'd imagine Airdrie would be a bit concerned by that.

[cameron2000]

I think the best way to judge a manager is where he leaves us.
Looking back over the past decade or so.
Jim Chapman took over when we were (iirc) 9th in League Two. And left us 10th (again iirc) in League One. That's an improvement.
Alan Adamson took us from the foot of League One to the foot of the Championship. Again an improvement.
Ian Murray took us from the foot of the Championship to seventh. An improvement.
Stevie Aitken took us from seventh in the Championship to ninth in League One. We regressed under his management.
Duffy is going to take us from ninth in League One to (potentially at very best) eighth in League One in 2.5 years and with a squad he built himself. That's stagnation, and it's really disappointing because I thought he would be a solid appointment who would certainly have made us into a decent League One team (in the mould of East Fife or Montrose for example) at the very least.
I think the reality of the situation is starting to hit Duffy. The weird nature of the season meant that a few wins here or there could always get you out of danger, and I think he believed we'd do that. But we haven't gone on a run at any stage of, say, five or six matches without defeat (3 wins 3 draws would've been ideal for example) and now we're staring at three games where we need to win at least twice to have any hope of avoiding ninth. For what it's worth if we end up in the playoffs then we will go down - and I think the same could be said for Clyde. The standard in the league this season is really poor.
It's too late to make a change now, but the club needs a new manager next season and some fresh ideas. At the moment some fans seem to act like we're a club who should be fighting it out with Brechin, Cowdenbeath and Albion Rovers at the wrong end of League Two. And that we're fortunate to even be in League One - and I just cannot get my head around that lack of ambition. Why are East Fife much better than us? Why are Montrose much better than us? Why are Peterhead seven points clear of us having rebuilt their entire squad with a collection of mainly regens and jobbers over the summer? 

I do think this reflects very harshly on Aitken - we had a lot of memorable occasions under him until it all went badly wrong in the final 8/9 months (potentially this was partly due to injuries of McLaughlin and Wardrop for 1/2 a season, leaving us without both first choice full backs)

[Jan Vojáček]

3 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

I do think this reflects very harshly on Aitken - we had a lot of memorable occasions under him until it all went badly wrong in the final 8/9 months (potentially this was partly due to injuries of McLaughlin and Wardrop for 1/2 a season, leaving us without both first choice full backs)

It does, but it's also just the basic truth of the situation he inherited versus the one he left. 

If he had got the squad he built performing like Duffy did then we should've been second or third in League One at the time he was punted. He got backed big-time to build a squad that would take us back up, and he couldn't get anything out of the players. If he had those players performing between August and October like Duffy got them going between January and May then I genuinely think we could've won promotion that season. At the very least we would've pushed Arbroath close for the title. 

Stevie's biggest mistake (from his reputation point-of-view) was not stepping down after we were relegated. Although, if you speak to him about it, then he'll tell you he thinks the time to resign would've been in the summer of 2017 after he'd kept us up. 

[sarti pooh]

9 minutes ago, cameron2000 said:

I do think this reflects very harshly on Aitken - we had a lot of memorable occasions under him until it all went badly wrong in the final 8/9 months (potentially this was partly due to injuries of McLaughlin and Wardrop for 1/2 a season, leaving us without both first choice full backs)

Aitken made his bed. He'll find no sympathy here.

[BallochSonsFan]

Aitken did well to survive Bonnyrigg. We improved massively for that result and in fairness to Stevie we did play well at times. Unfortunately we also played poorly at others. Aitken cam close to getting us a cup, ended up relegating us and by the end of things it looked like the players had no confidence in themselves or their manager. The definition of a rollercoaster ride. The manner of his departure and his comments in the aftermath are what sours it with Aitken. It was the right thing to dismiss him. His attack on the club, and on one or two individuals within the club, was little more than bitter rantings. 

[the snudge]

What objective did the board set out for Jim Duffy this season?

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

22 minutes ago, the snudge said:

What objective did the board set out for Jim Duffy this season?

I was about to bring the board into this. They also have to be held accountable for the situation we find ourselves in and the regression under them is alarming. The once very vocal Mr Steele has gone awfully quiet. On the community side of things we have progressed so credit where it’s due for that but when it comes to on the park questions surely have to be asked.

Steele once stood infront of us (before Duffy’s first full season) and told us the aim was the promotion playoffs. Duffy then proceeded to sign a team that everybody knew would struggle to stay up nevermind be gunning for promotion. Either Duffy spends his budget terribly or John Steele isn’t overly clued up on what it takes to be successful at this level. I’d imagine it’s a mixture of both. It actually seems to me like our most proactive member of staff is the fucking receptionist (who, from the outside looking in, does a very good job). I want Duffy gone but I’m not particularly confident when it comes to replacing him. Who on the board has the contacts or knowledge to seek out a capable replacement? 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Bring Back Paddy Flannery