Homelessness

[Adam]

In Sweden in 2011 they had an estimated 280 people living on the streets in the whole country! They have laws there that make it almost impossible to become 'homeless'

That said I believe they now have issues with the number of people in emergency housing etc

Which is exactly what would happen here if emergency housing was made available to everyone, rather than just those who are considered a priority. Can you imagine the amount of people who, after a fairly small fallout with their boyfriend/girlfriend who would decide to declare themselves homeless in order to get a free house of their own? Young adults living at home with their parents who want to move into their own place, rather than save a deposit up for a privately rented flat would simply be able to declare themselves homeless and get given a free house by a LHA.

In saying that though, if young adults are able to get given a house in this way, the rate of teen pregnancy may drop...

[The Old Northerner]

Which is exactly what would happen here if emergency housing was made available to everyone, rather than just those who are considered a priority. Can you imagine the amount of people who, after a fairly small fallout with their boyfriend/girlfriend who would decide to declare themselves homeless in order to get a free house of their own? Young adults living at home with their parents who want to move into their own place, rather than save a deposit up for a privately rented flat would simply be able to declare themselves homeless and get given a free house by a LHA.

In saying that though, if young adults are able to get given a house in this way, the rate of teen pregnancy may drop...

It's worth pointing out that the LHA *do* already make a distinction between 'intentionally' and 'unintentionally' homeless. You can't simply walk out, declare yourself 'homeless' and expect the LHA to have a duty to rehouse you.It's only if you are unintentionally homeless *and* on the priority list (correct as of Nov 2012) that the council will step in. If not a priority case, then they may put you in a B&B or such for a limited time but eventually you'll need to find digs of your own somehow

[dundeebarry]

I never give homeless folk change myself, partly because it won't help them

How do you know? Maybe whatever they spend the handful of change they've gathered over the course of a day will help them through another night.

I don't think I'm best placed to decide how a person living on the street should be living their lives, so I don't judge them on what they're likely to spend their money on. If they want to spent the 45p or whatever I have in my pocket on something that numbs the pain a little then so be it. I'm not going to ask any questions. Questioning the homeless on what they would spend any money you may or may not lay on them is ridiculous, self-righteous bullshit. Either drop the money in the cup or walk on by.

I'm not a religious person, but the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I" always struck me as fitting when it comes to explaining why I think it's a good thing to help your fellow man out when he or she has reached the point of homelessness. It could happen to any of us. Count your blessings, and if you can spare that loose change then the man lying destitute on the street would appreciate it.

That wasn't directed at you by the way, Erin, it's just my general thoughts on the matter.

[Adam]

It's worth pointing out that the LHA *do* already make a distinction between 'intentionally' and 'unintentionally' homeless. You can't simply walk out, declare yourself 'homeless' and expect the LHA to have a duty to rehouse you.It's only if you are unintentionally homeless *and* on the priority list (correct as of Nov 2012) that the council will step in. If not a priority case, then they may put you in a B&B or such for a limited time but eventually you'll need to find digs of your own somehow

Yes, but as you mention there are certain individuals that, even if they make themselves intentionally homeless, are given somewhere to stay that very night, even if it is a B&B.

I may not be familiar with how the system works now (been over four years since I was "homeless") but it was my responsibility to find new digs, and I was made unintentionally homeless. I received help with how to best go about applying for a new house, but apart from being pointed in the right direction, it was up to me to get something lined up. I'm not sure what would have happened had I not fired through it, but I'm pretty certain that I wouldn't have been kicked out on the street, as my girlfriend (now wife) had just given birth.

So whilst under current legislation you cannot just walk out and declare yourself homeless (obviously there are ways around this which people do take advantage of), could the new legislation make it easier for someone to just up sticks and leave whenever it suited them? If the Scottish Parliament's promise to eradicate homelessness is true, then yes it could make it easier to exploit the system further than it already is.

[TurbineTon]

How do you know? Maybe whatever they spend the handful of change they've gathered over the course of a day will help them through another night.

I don't think I'm best placed to decide how a person living on the street should be living their lives, so I don't judge them on what they're likely to spend their money on. If they want to spent the 45p or whatever I have in my pocket on something that numbs the pain a little then so be it. I'm not going to ask any questions. Questioning the homeless on what they would spend any money you may or may not lay on them is ridiculous, self-righteous bullshit. Either drop the money in the cup or walk on by.

I'm not a religious person, but the phrase "There but for the grace of God go I" always struck me as fitting when it comes to explaining why I think it's a good thing to help your fellow man out when he or she has reached the point of homelessness. It could happen to any of us. Count your blessings, and if you can spare that loose change then the man lying destitute on the street would appreciate it.

That wasn't directed at you by the way, Erin, it's just my general thoughts on the matter.

Barely a hint of sarcasm.

New Year, New dundeebarry.

[Broken Algorithms]

If I am dropping money in the cup, I always try to have a quick glance on its contents. A mate decided to take pity on a poor lady sitting on the steps outside Waverly on his way back to his flat one day. Bending over he dropped in a pound coin for her, only to realise to late it was filled with tea, and that she was actually just dressed rather shabbily and not a homeless person.

[dave_binos]

I've been known to give a homeless person a pound or two on a night out

[Thistle_do_nicely]

On an aside, back in my student days i sometimes bought a big issue, i stopped with the increasing amount of romanians who were selling and forcing their kids to beg beside them. Also had one guy who took my money for the magazine and wouldn't give me it saying i should just go buy a sun to read instead. Then the final nail in the coffin being the guy at partick train station selling the big issue(don't know if he still does), turns out i knew his two boys and i also knew he lived in a relatively large house in a nice wee bit in Dumbarton and was claiming incapacity benefit. These experiences kind of sickened me.

Is he the guy with the light brown goatee? I think I know the one you mean. Saw him there a couple of months ago if it's the guy I'm thinking of, anyway.

[WaffenThinMint]

Just reading an article on it that was quite thought provoking.

What is your honest opinion of those on the streets?

How do you believe the culture of homelessness could be improved if you believe it should?

Do you even care? Have you yourself ever been unfortunate enough to live rough?

Thoughts?

Bottom line for me is that in the 21st century, if society can find ludicrous sums of money to spend on WMDs or to give to people to sing a tune or kick a ball around in far greater excess to what they are worth, that same society has no excuse for having anyone living rough simply because they've nowhere to go, especially considering the amount of property lying vacant nationwide.

Dealing with homelessness should not be the preserve of those wishing to exploit them for their own dubious religious or political agendas, it should be a matter of shame that any nation daring to call itself civilised should allow anyone to be in this position.

Yes, yes, here endeth the lesson, etc

[H_B]

Bottom line for me is that in the 21st century, if society can find ludicrous sums of money to spend on WMDs or to give to people to sing a tune or kick a ball around in far greater excess to what they are worth, that same society has no excuse for having anyone living rough simply because they've nowhere to go, especially considering the amount of property lying vacant nationwide.

Part of the problem is though that a lot of people are paying rent for really dubious quality accomodation. And there is a high proportion of people who are working for virtually nothing, once you take away accomodation, council tax, electricity, gas etc.

You are right though - providing a roof over the head for everyone should be the number one priority for any civilised society. It's just not acceptable that anyone should have nowhere to live and nothing to eat.

Especially in Britain, where there's so much unused green space.

[Reynard]

It's funny how in a state where we have a massive welfare system which even helps to prop up people on middle incomes that poverty hasn't been totally eradicated yet. I thought it would have been completely cured by now.

[lithgierose]

Why do homeless people always have dogs? If you can't afford to feed yourself, get rid eat the dog.

[lithgierose]

worked in the new parliament when it was being built,used to see a couple of youngish guys sitting in different areas with pure white blankets over the knees asking for loose change.one day on way back to station just at the bongo club? one of the guys came running past jangling like fvck,shouting to the other you stay here il go get the car

[RCR]

I had a guy ask me for money to buy food in Glasgow a few years back, and I told him that I was going to burger king anyway and if he wanted I'd get him a burger. At first he said he wanted fish and chips from the opposite direction, but changed his mind pretty quickly when I wasn't having it. He asked for the angas burger meal too (which he didn't get - cheeky b*****d!).

I had a chat with him anyway, and he basically told me there was nowhere to go. He was low priority for council housing which meant he was forced onto the street, and it was the same story with the charities too. He was stuck in a rut that he really couldn't get out of.

I take everything urban campers say with a pinch of salt, as you have to f**k up pretty badly to get there in the first place, but it would be good to give all of them a bottom rung on the ladder to start on.

[Fuctifano]

Really good thread, I've nothing to contribute other than

Then the final nail in the coffin being the guy at partick train station selling the big issue(don't know if he still does), turns out i knew his two boys and i also knew he lived in a relatively large house in a nice wee bit in Dumbarton and was claiming incapacity benefit. These experiences kind of sickened me.

was that the guy who was selling it for years and years, looked a wee bit like Ford Kiernan from chewin the fat etc? He must have been selling it for over 10 years in that one spot, from the mid 90s when I was at school up until 3 or 4 years ago. I did always wonder how long they let you sell the Big Issue for before they gave a pitch to someone else. Maybe it's not him though.

[SS-18 ICBM]

It's funny how in a state where we have a massive welfare system which even helps to prop up people on middle incomes that poverty hasn't been totally eradicated yet. I thought it would have been completely cured by now.

Homelessness and poverty in general have afflicted man ever since the beginning of civilization. "Early in the development of what we call civilization a few folks realized that they could live easily and grow rich by making other people work for them. These people used cunning or brute force to institute themselves as chieftains, shamans, kings or priest. Though threats and superstition they kept people in line. Now and then their subjects would revolt and they would either grant enough reform to placate them or be replaced by a new ruler. Such is the nature of government (and human civilization)." (Felix, "Professor Felix's Very Short History of Anarchism," Profane Existence #1, Dec. 1989) At the extreme end of those who are being ruled are the homeless.

Over the 5000 years of civilization homelessness has changed little. The problem has afflicted almost every culture. The only thing that has changed about the issue is how those suffering from homelessness are treated, and unfortunately it has not gotten better. During the Roman Empire, there was a man named Jesus. He was a homeless man. Jesus and those who later proclaimed his message, traveled all over the Roman Empire depending on the kindness of strangers for food and shelter. That was the only way they could survive.

In today's world the thought of taking in someone from the streets is totally preposterous. To attempt to make up for their unwillingness to open their home, many people today give to homeless shelters. That course of action is chosen by many because even though they are helping the poor the rigid class structure is still present and enforced. Instead of treating the less fortunate as equals they are treated as children who are not worthy of trust or respect. It is clear who suffers; not only from the condition of homelessness, but also from the self-gratifying acts that are called charity.

Homelessness is a direct result of the economics involved in capitalist society. "While it is true that a capitalist system affords great luxuries to many members of its society, this seems to have a direct link to the exploitation of those who do not have these luxuries." (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). " Capitalism relies on a theoretical model that assumes that everyone is out to maximize their individual profit" ("New World Order," Maximum Rock And Roll #98, July 1991). While seeking to maximize profit, some people are left behind, and are consequently doomed to either work for those who are winning the race or left to die. This happens because in capitalist society the only way to control one's own future is through money. Democracy and freedom are great for those that can afford it. However, most people in a capitalist society are not so lucky. Although those people believe they are free, they are ruled by something even more powerful than a king. They are ruled by money. Everything in capitalist society revolves around money, and those that don't have it, the impoverished and homeless, keep suffering while those at the top of the latter laugh.

It would be great to say that the men elected to represent society and make decisions for it are impartial and act to bring the betterment of society. Of course it is easy to see that that is not true. Politicians are ruled by the all-mighty dollar like everything else. Meaning, unfortunately for the homeless, they can not afford to take part in democracy. Because the homeless don't have any lobbying groups or can't hold fundraising dinners, they must accept whatever those in the ivory tower chose to throw down to them.

The value that contributes to and creates homelessness is the value that many nations nations have built upon, greed. It is simple to see how greed created the present situation. The more interesting question is what keeps it going. One thing has made greed the number one value in our society. That thing is fear; fear of falling behind, and fear of change. "The middle class is 'well off' enough to resist any kind of radical change, content with their status and fearful of becoming 'poor'" (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). Even after "falling behind" greed still prevents the materially poor from looking and working for change. Instead they try to catch up. Those people "who should (and often do) realize their true situation, work for a chance to engage in middle class luxuries. The fact that people loot stereos and televisions instead of food shows that they have been convinced that a better life is more money and more goods" (ibid). The state of the world today proves that a society which has greed as it's central value is seriously flawed.

Even today's religion feeds into the system of greed. The early Christian communities were built as socialist (or communist) societies. In those communities when a person entered the community their wealth was distributed evenly though-out the community. Of course today's church is nothing like that, but there are some sub-cultures that function in this way. In the UK they are commonly referred to as cults. Even Christianity looks at these groups as crazy. The common conception, even by Christians, is that a person gives up their individuality when they enter a group where they have no possessions, further proving that in today's society a person is judged totally by what they have.

"It has been said time and time again that capitalism is cannibalism" (ibid). There is no clearer example of this than in the situation of homelessness currently facing capitalist society. Capitalism uses up humans in order to gain the greatest profit possible. Once no more profit can be had, the person is tossed aside. Those that have been tossed aside become the poorest of the poor, the homeless.

The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise! By Craig O'Hara.

[Reynard]

Homelessness and poverty in general have afflicted man every since the beginning of civilization. "Early in the development of what we call civilization a few folks realized that they could live easily and grow rich by making other people work for them. These people used cunning or brute force to institute themselves as chieftains, shamans, kings or priest. Though threats and superstition they kept people in line. Now and then their subjects would revolt and they would either grant enough reform to placate them or be replaced by a new ruler. Such is the nature of government (and human civilization)." (Felix, "Professor Felix's Very Short History of Anarchism," Profane Existence #1, Dec. 1989) At the extreme end of those who are being ruled are the homeless.

Over the 5000 years of civilization homelessness has changed little. The problem has afflicted almost every culture. The only thing that has changed about the issue is how those suffering from homelessness are treated, and unfortunately it has not gotten better. During the Roman Empire, there was a man named Jesus. He was a homeless man. Jesus and those who later proclaimed his message, traveled all over the Roman Empire depending on the kindness of strangers for food and shelter. That was the only way they could survive.

In today's world the thought of taking in someone from the streets is totally preposterous. To attempt to make up for their unwillingness to open their home, many people today give to homeless shelters. That course of action is chosen by many because even though they are helping the poor the rigid class structure is still present and enforced. Instead of treating the less fortunate as equals they are treated as children who are not worthy of trust or respect. It is clear who suffers; not only from the condition of homelessness, but also from the self-gratifying acts that are called charity.

Homelessness is a direct result of the economics involved in capitalist society. "While it is true that a capitalist system affords great luxuries to many members of its society, this seems to have a direct link to the exploitation of those who do not have these luxuries." (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). " Capitalism relies on a theoretical model that assumes that everyone is out to maximize their individual profit" ("New World Order," Maximum Rock And Roll #98, July 1991). While seeking to maximize profit, some people are left behind, and are consequently doomed to either work for those who are winning the race or left to die. This happens because in capitalist society the only way to control one's own future is through money. Democracy and freedom are great for those that can afford it. However, most people in a capitalist society are not so lucky. Although those people believe they are free, they are ruled by something even more powerful than a king. They are ruled by money. Everything in capitalist society revolves around money, and those that don't have it, the impoverished and homeless, keep suffering while those at the top of the latter laugh.

It would be great to say that the men elected to represent society and make decisions for it are impartial and act to bring the betterment of society. Of course it is easy to see that that is not true. Politicians are ruled by the all-mighty dollar like everything else. Meaning, unfortunately for the homeless, they can not afford to take part in democracy. Because the homeless don't have any lobbying groups or can't hold fundraising dinners, they must accept whatever those in the ivory tower chose to throw down to them.

The value that contributes to and creates homelessness is the value that many nations nations have built upon, greed. It is simple to see how greed created the present situation. The more interesting question is what keeps it going. One thing has made greed the number one value in our society. That thing is fear; fear of falling behind, and fear of change. "The middle class is 'well off' enough to resist any kind of radical change, content with their status and fearful of becoming 'poor'" (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). Even after "falling behind" greed still prevents the materially poor from looking and working for change. Instead they try to catch up. Those people "who should (and often do) realize their true situation, work for a chance to engage in middle class luxuries. The fact that people loot stereos and televisions instead of food shows that they have been convinced that a better life is more money and more goods" (ibid). The state of the world today proves that a society which has greed as it's central value is seriously flawed.

Even today's religion feeds into the system of greed. The early Christian communities were built as socialist (or communist) societies. In those communities when a person entered the community their wealth was distributed evenly though-out the community. Of course today's church is nothing like that, but there are some sub-cultures that function in this way. In America they are commonly referred to as cults. Even Christianity looks at these groups as crazy. The common conception, even by Christians, is that a person gives up their individuality when they enter a group where they have no possessions, further proving that in today's society a person is judged totally by what they have.

"It has been said time and time again that capitalism is cannibalism" (ibid). There is no clearer example of this than in the situation of homelessness currently facing capitalist society. Capitalism uses up humans in order to gain the greatest profit possible. Once no more profit can be had, the person is tossed aside. Those that have been tossed aside become the poorest of the poor, the homeless.

The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise! By Craig O'Hara.

Wrote Craig o Hara from his comfortable middle class home whilst he sipped a skinny latte as his heart bled for all those poor poor souls that his beloved state system is STILL failing.

[dave258]

Homelessness and poverty in general have afflicted man every since the beginning of civilization. "Early in the development of what we call civilization a few folks realized that they could live easily and grow rich by making other people work for them. These people used cunning or brute force to institute themselves as chieftains, shamans, kings or priest. Though threats and superstition they kept people in line. Now and then their subjects would revolt and they would either grant enough reform to placate them or be replaced by a new ruler. Such is the nature of government (and human civilization)." (Felix, "Professor Felix's Very Short History of Anarchism," Profane Existence #1, Dec. 1989) At the extreme end of those who are being ruled are the homeless.

Over the 5000 years of civilization homelessness has changed little. The problem has afflicted almost every culture. The only thing that has changed about the issue is how those suffering from homelessness are treated, and unfortunately it has not gotten better. During the Roman Empire, there was a man named Jesus. He was a homeless man. Jesus and those who later proclaimed his message, traveled all over the Roman Empire depending on the kindness of strangers for food and shelter. That was the only way they could survive.

In today's world the thought of taking in someone from the streets is totally preposterous. To attempt to make up for their unwillingness to open their home, many people today give to homeless shelters. That course of action is chosen by many because even though they are helping the poor the rigid class structure is still present and enforced. Instead of treating the less fortunate as equals they are treated as children who are not worthy of trust or respect. It is clear who suffers; not only from the condition of homelessness, but also from the self-gratifying acts that are called charity.

Homelessness is a direct result of the economics involved in capitalist society. "While it is true that a capitalist system affords great luxuries to many members of its society, this seems to have a direct link to the exploitation of those who do not have these luxuries." (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). " Capitalism relies on a theoretical model that assumes that everyone is out to maximize their individual profit" ("New World Order," Maximum Rock And Roll #98, July 1991). While seeking to maximize profit, some people are left behind, and are consequently doomed to either work for those who are winning the race or left to die. This happens because in capitalist society the only way to control one's own future is through money. Democracy and freedom are great for those that can afford it. However, most people in a capitalist society are not so lucky. Although those people believe they are free, they are ruled by something even more powerful than a king. They are ruled by money. Everything in capitalist society revolves around money, and those that don't have it, the impoverished and homeless, keep suffering while those at the top of the latter laugh.

It would be great to say that the men elected to represent society and make decisions for it are impartial and act to bring the betterment of society. Of course it is easy to see that that is not true. Politicians are ruled by the all-mighty dollar like everything else. Meaning, unfortunately for the homeless, they can not afford to take part in democracy. Because the homeless don't have any lobbying groups or can't hold fundraising dinners, they must accept whatever those in the ivory tower chose to throw down to them.

The value that contributes to and creates homelessness is the value that many nations nations have built upon, greed. It is simple to see how greed created the present situation. The more interesting question is what keeps it going. One thing has made greed the number one value in our society. That thing is fear; fear of falling behind, and fear of change. "The middle class is 'well off' enough to resist any kind of radical change, content with their status and fearful of becoming 'poor'" (Craig O'Hara, The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise!). Even after "falling behind" greed still prevents the materially poor from looking and working for change. Instead they try to catch up. Those people "who should (and often do) realize their true situation, work for a chance to engage in middle class luxuries. The fact that people loot stereos and televisions instead of food shows that they have been convinced that a better life is more money and more goods" (ibid). The state of the world today proves that a society which has greed as it's central value is seriously flawed.

Even today's religion feeds into the system of greed. The early Christian communities were built as socialist (or communist) societies. In those communities when a person entered the community their wealth was distributed evenly though-out the community. Of course today's church is nothing like that, but there are some sub-cultures that function in this way. In the UK they are commonly referred to as cults. Even Christianity looks at these groups as crazy. The common conception, even by Christians, is that a person gives up their individuality when they enter a group where they have no possessions, further proving that in today's society a person is judged totally by what they have.

"It has been said time and time again that capitalism is cannibalism" (ibid). There is no clearer example of this than in the situation of homelessness currently facing capitalist society. Capitalism uses up humans in order to gain the greatest profit possible. Once no more profit can be had, the person is tossed aside. Those that have been tossed aside become the poorest of the poor, the homeless.

The Philosophy of Punk: More Than Noise! By Craig O'Hara.

TL; DR.

[SS-18 ICBM]

Wrote Craig o Hara from his comfortable middle class home whilst he sipped a skinny latte as his heart bled for all those poor poor souls that his beloved state system is STILL failing.

The message is greater than the messenger.

[Bold Rover]

Why do homeless people always have dogs? If you can't afford to feed yourself, get rid of the dog.

Or eat it.