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Independence - how would you vote?


Wee Bully

Independence - how would you vote  

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Most polls have however established there is a gender gap, surely this has to be recognised.

Why is this and what is being done to overcome it?

Personally I would like to see Sturgeon more to the fore of the campaign and have the economic disadvantages of the Union more forcefully highlighted.

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I think the SNP funded poll has been fairly successful in what it set out to do. There had been a run of polls putting No comfortably ahead which risked dispiriting activists and cementing in people's minds that this was some sort of done deal. The fact that their poll showed Yes ahead or more importantly a very tight race threw it all open again and also helpfully made people start to distrust the polls altogether. So in that sense it was incredibly effective push polling as it shifted the agenda. I'd be surprised if separately Yes weren't doing private polling that actually helped them campaign better.

This is what I mean, though: public polling shouldn't be treated as something as important as it is. It's not destiny.

There is private polling going on (as there should be) but how much actual effect it's having on the campaigning is open to question.

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Most polls have however established there is a gender gap, surely this has to be recognised.

Why is this and what is being done to overcome it?

Personally I would like to see Sturgeon more to the fore of the campaign and have the economic disadvantages of the Union more forcefully highlighted.

Solid idea on both counts but I'm speaking from the perspective of a man. I'm not sure if any women are active in this thread (which is a problem in and of itself, albeit one that reflects P&B's demographics and general hostility to women as a whole). I wonder if Yes has done any research into this? One would assume so.

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Polls aren't irrelevant because they set the agenda of the campaign. Last week for example, Salmond did a standard Newsnicht fluffer piece, which was instantly shifted from the legislative agenda for the next year to a debate about how "the polls" were showing Salmond would lose and whether he was disappointed or not.

As the media are cherry-picking polls to suit their agenda (as, unsurprisingly are both campaigns) then they need to be scrutinised and dismantled when it is appropriate.

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As a side, we're getting drawn in, because if we let it pass, then the narrative becomes one of one side screaming loudly about how Yes are being crushed

Which is the case. Yes are being mauled.

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I think the SNP funded poll has been fairly successful in what it set out to do.

I agree. I think they had to do something. It was getting embarrassing as poll after poll showed them getting utterly tanked.

As I said before though, it's telling that their best attempt to generate a positive poll result showed parity. That's telling in itself.

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Most polls have however established there is a gender gap, surely this has to be recognised.Why is this and what is being done to overcome it?Personally I would like to see Sturgeon more to the fore of the campaign and have the economic disadvantages of the Union more forcefully highlighted.

Hasn't it been shown that women are more cautious and risk averse? If that is the case then I think things to reassure them about why it is better to be independent would be of more benefit.

Sturgeon should be more to the fore of the campaign generally although not sure if there is any evidence that a female spokesperson would necessarily have any added impact on women.

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As much as infrastructural improvements would be awesome... where, exactly, would you run this maglev system? Is it really necessary when the cities are already only 40 minutes apart by rail?

Presumable it would run between Edinburgh, say Haymarket, and Glasgow in as strait a line as possible. That would involve compulsory purchases and knocking a few buildings down, building a tunnel or two, cuttings etc. of course.

Obviously the feasibility would have to be considered, costs and benefits and so on. Trains leave every 15 minutes on the main, via Falkirk, line already. There is certainly the capacity there. I'm sure this was mooted once before and would have resulted in 10 or 15 minute long journey times. If you add up the time saved over the year that's a hell of a lot of hours. Shaving 25 minutes in journey times between our two largest cities is huge. I think it's a good idea because I think it would benefit our economy in the long run. We're still using the infrastructure built before my great grandmother's granny was born.

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Really?

IPSOS Mori, You Gov, TNS etc have given two questions prior to the actual referendum question, and prefaced that with a leading preamble have they?

Don't know about the others, but You Gov almost certainly would have. Any poll I've taken part in (that isn't about which supermarket I went to last, or whether I watched TV last night) has been ridiculously leading. There was one I did that asked something about Scotland, then the next question was something like "Do you trust the government?" I said yes, and later saw that poll question was actually asking about Westminster.

Another one asked "During these difficult economic times, our government has to take hard decisions in order to better society. Recently the government *Something about dirty immigrants being tackled, but can't remember the actual wording*. Do you think David Cameron is doing a good job?"

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HB has decided to forget the mauling that the Yougov poll took. For the sake of his own fantasy world. But meanwhile, in the real world, our Lib Dem government assured us that if we held a referendum, then there would be uncertainty and it would damage our economy right?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-24036113

Scotland's food and drink industry has raised its long-term sales targets after achieving its goals six years early following a record 12 months.

Targets were set by the industry in 2009 to reach £12.5bn by 2017. But newly-released figures showed record turnover of more than £13bn in 2011.

If this is with uncertainty, imagine how we would do if we were independent!

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HB has decided to forget the mauling that the Yougov poll took.

The You Gov poll isn't in the same planet of wrong as the SNP engineered one. I agree with much of the criticism of it though. I wouldn't use that poll in isolation at all.

The problem the Nats have though, is that all of the polls they didn't pay for shows them being horsed, to different degrees of horsiness.

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The You Gov poll isn't in the same planet of wrong as the SNP engineered one. I agree with much of the criticism of it though. I wouldn't use that poll in isolation at all.

So essentially, in the original point you took issue with, I was in fact, right, and you agreed with me.

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So essentially, in the original point you took issue with, I was in fact, right, and you agreed with me.

No, I don't. You said they had been discredited for the same reasons. They haven't.

The SNP comedy poll has been discredited for a very different reason.

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Not taking seriously any polls that don't have substantial undecided votes. Time after time, they outnumber the Yes's and No's when out canvassing. I hear the same from across the country as well.

I always say I dont know, when canvassers turn up. Not that very many do these days thankfully. Nothing worse than some fat sweaty blob of wankerdom standing on the doorstep asking how you will be voting in a secret ballot.

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No, I don't. You said they had been discredited for the same reasons. They haven't.

The SNP comedy poll has been discredited for a very different reason.

Serious question, because I don't think I've ever seen a Unionist actually say why they're voting no.

Why do you not want Scotland to be independent? This is a serious question btw.

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As much as infrastructural improvements would be awesome... where, exactly, would you run this maglev system? Is it really necessary when the cities are already only 40 minutes apart by rail?

Is the current track not mainly run by diesel powered trains? It'd be much better having a modern link between the two.

The Scottish Government would have been much better off concentrating on increased and improved public transport links between Glasgow and Edinburgh, then Northwards rather than the tram system in Edinburgh. In fact general infrastucture across the country would be fair benefical than some of the current projects, in my view.

I also noticed (BBC, a few weeks ago) the land bought for the Glasgow Airport rail link has been sold back at a loss a while back.

Mind you like all Government projects, those it doesn't affect, outwith the central belt, will be unhappy as money is 'wasted' as they have no use for it.

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Is the current track not mainly run by diesel powered trains? It'd be much better having a modern link between the two.

The Scottish Government would have been much better off concentrating on increased and improved public transport links between Glasgow and Edinburgh, then Northwards rather than the tram system in Edinburgh. In fact general infrastucture across the country would be fair benefical than some of the current projects, in my view.

I also noticed (BBC, a few weeks ago) the land bought for the Glasgow Airport rail link has been sold back at a loss a while back.

Mind you like all Government projects, those it doesn't affect, outwith the central belt, will be unhappy as money is 'wasted' as they have no use for it.

Agree totally that better inter-city connections would have made more sense than the trams but I think people are underestimating the level of upheaval required for a maglev. For me a maglev would only make sense over a greater distance, and tehre isn't the population base outside the Central Belt to justify it.

The less said about the Glasgow Airport Rail Link the better. What a colossal balls-up that was, start to finish.

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