sjc Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Fullerene said: It is the Stalinist system that made it the awful place it was and still is but that would not have happened if the Americans had not suggested dividing Korea in the first place. It is worth a thought that if Japan had surrendered a week earlier, before the Soviets got involved - then maybe Korea would not have been divided in the first place. Obviously that is alternative history - but all the same. Both sides (USA & USSR) engaged in a "land grab" at the end of WW2. Not sure how one side can be blamed more than the other though when you consider the fate of the Eastern European Countries that ended up as Soviet satellite states behind the iron curtain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 You guys over there seem to be more informed on the impending war between North Korea and the USA than I am in Japan to be honest. I heard on a U.K. radio station the other day that Japan was frantically installing anti missile weaponry and having its civilians practicing missile attack drills.....news to us over here! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 4 hours ago, scotfree said: I'm confused with all this talk that NK was formed because of Russia. Was it not the Chinese that fought on the side of NK? I hope somebody briefs you before the negotiations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 Just saw Trumps interview where he said "if anything happens to Guam, North Korea are in big big trouble" Reminded me of this: https://youtu.be/8kIsYLV8bE8 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 (edited) 10 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Or they hadn't bombed Peril Harbour etc etc etc Yeah. Alternative history is somewhat silly. Such as maybe all these issues would been avoided if nobody had invented the wheel. Although I sometimes wonder if the guy who stopped Hitler getting into Art School ever blamed himself for the Second World War. Edited August 12, 2017 by Fullerene 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 4 hours ago, sjc said: Both sides (USA & USSR) engaged in a "land grab" at the end of WW2. Not sure how one side can be blamed more than the other though when you consider the fate of the Eastern European Countries that ended up as Soviet satellite states behind the iron curtain. Both sides are to blame and I totally agree that the Soviet system was pretty much shit everywhere. I was simply pointing out the USA was not entirely innocent in this matter. On reflection, at the end of the war, the Soviets were still "allies" even if the Americans no longer trusted them. If the Soviets wanted to sent a million soldiers from Manchuria over to Japan "to get their photograph in front of Mount Fuji" then what would the Americans do about it. They hardly wanted to start the next war when they had only just finished the last one. So I guess appeasement was the easiest option and unfortunately Korea was located in the wrong place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotfree Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I hope somebody briefs you before the negotiations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 5 hours ago, Fullerene said: Both sides are to blame and I totally agree that the Soviet system was pretty much shit everywhere. I was simply pointing out the USA was not entirely innocent in this matter. On reflection, at the end of the war, the Soviets were still "allies" even if the Americans no longer trusted them. If the Soviets wanted to sent a million soldiers from Manchuria over to Japan "to get their photograph in front of Mount Fuji" then what would the Americans do about it. They hardly wanted to start the next war when they had only just finished the last one. So I guess appeasement was the easiest option and unfortunately Korea was located in the wrong place. "Allies" in the very loosest sense of the word but, yeh agreed. Staines was paranoid that the Western forces wanted to start a war with the USSR.....Churchill saying "we shouldn't stop marching until we get to Moscow" probably reinforced this paranoia! Korea is a bit different as remember a UN mandate was passed unlike Vietnam. Soviet influence in Mao taking control in China shouldn't be forgotten....must to the disgust of the Americans who how a long standing good relationship with China previously. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 16 hours ago, sjc said: "Allies" in the very loosest sense of the word but, yeh agreed. Stalin was paranoid that the Western forces wanted to start a war with the USSR.....Churchill saying "we shouldn't stop marching until we get to Moscow" probably reinforced this paranoia! Korea is a bit different as remember a UN mandate was passed unlike Vietnam. Soviet influence in Mao taking control in China shouldn't be forgotten....must to the disgust of the Americans who had a long standing good relationship with China previously. Stalin was just paranoid full stop - and dangerous to know. I have read numerous books where somebody met him and suddenly their live was in danger. For example, some specialist might talk to him about the mating habits of butterflies and he would decide it went against communist ideology and therefore the specialist had to be shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 25 minutes ago, Fullerene said: Stalin was just paranoid full stop - and dangerous to know. I have read numerous books where somebody met him and suddenly their live was in danger. For example, some specialist might talk to him about the mating habits of butterflies and he would decide it went against communist ideology and therefore the specialist had to be shot. Stalin was a c**t! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Fullerene said: Stalin was just paranoid full stop - and dangerous to know. I have read numerous books where somebody met him and suddenly their live was in danger. For example, some specialist might talk to him about the mating habits of butterflies and he would decide it went against communist ideology and therefore the specialist had to be shot. If you give them an inch they'll take a mile. You have to nip it in the bud...said Stalin. You can see his point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 For example, some specialist might talk to him about the mating habits of butterflies and he would decide it went against communist ideology and therefore the specialist had to be shot. There are days when I would love to have that kind of power. Not against butterfly specialists particularly but some of the other canutes I run into... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Fullerene said: Stalin was just paranoid full stop - and dangerous to know. I have read numerous books where somebody met him and suddenly their live was in danger. For example, some specialist might talk to him about the mating habits of butterflies and he would decide it went against communist ideology and therefore the specialist had to be shot. Remember reading in one of Solzhenitsyn's books that after making a speech Stalin would often get a one or two hour ovation, mainly due to the fact he'd have people stationed around the hall to see who the first audience member was to stop clapping him. Said audience member could expect a chap on the door later that night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 I visited the Stalin museum in Gori, it was curiously inspiring. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Wish they'd attack Inverness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Haud the bus. Are folk here claiming Stalin was a bad guy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 29 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: Haud the bus. Are folk here claiming Stalin was a bad guy? They wouldn't have called him Uncle Joe if he wasn't a very nice man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Wish they'd attack Inverness. No doubt there is a queue of them waiting for Kim outside his boudoir 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 8 hours ago, Hillonearth said: Remember reading in one of Solzhenitsyn's books that after making a speech Stalin would often get a one or two hour ovation, mainly due to the fact he'd have people stationed around the hall to see who the first audience member was to stop clapping him. Said audience member could expect a chap on the door later that night. Surprisingly on-thread remark actually! Some people in North Korea when to prison for not crying enough when Kim Jong Il died. Imagine if Thatcher had insisted on that. Al least half of Scotland would be behind bars now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, invergowrie arab said: Haud the bus. Are folk here claiming Stalin was a bad guy? I'm not - but he did have issues. Rather a lot actually. I am sure his mother loved him - at least before he had her shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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