Stellaboz Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 The guy who got a parking ticket that day is the unluckiest IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 More people were killed in a single conventional air raid in Tokyo in March than in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. If the nukes ended the war they saved a whole load of Japanese lives as well as Americans. I do think the Nagasaki bomb could have been dropped out at sea in say Tokyo Bay if the Japanese high command needed any more convincing. They dropped it to test its effects in comparison to the Hiroshima bomb imo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: More people were killed in a single conventional air raid in Tokyo in March than in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki. If the nukes ended the war they saved a whole load of Japanese lives as well as Americans. I do think the Nagasaki bomb could have been dropped out at sea in say Tokyo Bay if the Japanese high command needed any more convincing. They dropped it to test its effects in comparison to the Hiroshima bomb imo. Are you including the numbers of those that died in the decades after Hiroshima & Nagasaki due to the effects of the radiation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 No, neither am I including those in Tokyo who later died from their injuries, which would have been many. I believe the long term effects of radiation were not as severe as originally thought, Chernoble(sp) being another example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Japan was occupying vietnam towards the final months of WW2 and if i remember correctly they basically took over from the french and were taking almost all food production from the country to feed their troops You're confusing threats of aggression with acts of aggression. FWIW I think NK is a fairly unstable regime but I think their whole stance has been as a result of the isolationism that has come about by being targeted by the US, and hence, the rest of the West for decades. Their paranoia is, therefore, understandable though unfortunate. By the time the US dropped the two atom bombs they had cracked the Japanese coding system and the end of the war would have been not long afterwards.The bombs were dropped at the behest of the Generals and Scientists who wanted to make a Statement. And a president who wanted to send a message to Moscow. 1. No this was not correct.2.NK . yes under sanctions why have become an unhealthy and also become uncoprative. Makes séance.3. Bomb them. Hell no they have shite less than other countries, but keep that ahoooched 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, welshbairn said: No, neither am I including those in Tokyo who later died from their injuries, which would have been many. I believe the long term effects of radiation were not as severe as originally thought, Chernoble(sp) being another example. 250,000 in total were vaporised in a split second in the two A-bomb droppings. There's still generational cancers being treated due to the effects of the fallout. You should visit the peace park museum if you're ever here. Interesting but fucking harrowing. I agree that nature and the environment can recover well over time (like Chernobyl) but the poor b*****ds that died/lived with the effects of a nuclear bomb shouldn't be undermined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 250,000 in total were vaporised in a split second in the two A-bomb droppings. There's still generational cancers being treated due to the effects of the fallout. You should visit the peace park museum if you're ever here. Interesting but fucking harrowing. I agree that nature and the environment can recover well over time (like Chernobyl) but the poor b*****ds that died/lived with the effects of a nuclear bomb shouldn't be undermined. They (Emperor) only said defeat. They never give a f**k about civians they slaughted 20 m. Before that bomb got dropped. 20 fucking million 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SlipperyP said: They (Emperor) only said defeat. They never give a f**k about civians they slaughted 20 m. Before that bomb got dropped. 20 fucking million You're getting the Emperor mixed up with the Military rulers that were ruling Japan back then.....but granted human life was treated as cheap.....not just by the Japanese though. Stalin murdered up to 50m! Edited April 18, 2017 by sjc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Was the Emperor not the head of state? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I will add. 20m non Japanese. They fucked the whole of asia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, SlipperyP said: Was the Emperor not the head of state? Yes, in the same way Queen Victoria didn't really build an Empire. Just done by Politicians or in Japan's case, a Military ruler in their name. The radio broadcast by the Emperor ofJapan's surrender was the 1st time most Japanese had heard his voice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, SlipperyP said: I will add. 20m non Japanese. They fucked the whole of asia Yes. They wanted to build their own Empire....just 50-100years later than the Europeans. We're hardly blameless on the imperialistic front though, are we? "Asian for the Asians" I believe was their slogan! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 1 hour ago, sjc said: 250,000 in total were vaporised in a split second in the two A-bomb droppings. . Got a link for that figure? Not saying you're wrong but it's about 250% higher than anything I've been able to find. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 8 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said: Got a link for that figure? Not saying you're wrong but it's about 250% higher than anything I've been able to find. Read it at the Peace park museum. The figure was for both Hiroshima & Nagasaki. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Yes. They wanted to build their own Empire....just 50-100years later than the Europeans. We're hardly blameless on the imperialistic front though, are we? "Asian for the Asians" I believe was their slogan! At Nanking? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newbornbairn Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, sjc said: Read it at the Peace park museum. The figure was for both Hiroshima & Nagasaki. That looks more like one of the higher estimates of total deaths from both cities after 6 months tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Yes, in the same way Queen Victoria didn't really build an Empire. Just done by Politicians or in Japan's case, a Military ruler in their name. The radio broadcast by the Emperor ofJapan's surrender was the 1st time most Japanese had heard his voice. No the emperor had more control. To the yes/no.They fucked up by saying yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, sjc said: Yes, in the same way Queen Victoria didn't really build an Empire. Just done by Politicians or in Japan's case, a Military ruler in their name. The radio broadcast by the Emperor ofJapan's surrender was the 1st time most Japanese had heard his voice. And most of them didn't understand what he was saying - he made the broadcast in archaic court Japanese which virtually no-one spoke. Imagine Churchill making a radio speech in Anglo-Saxon Old English and you're not far off. He also at no point used the word "surrender" which was a clue to the country's mindset at the time...thanks to the bushido code, an invasion of the Japanese home islands would have been a complete bloodbath. The Allied plan was to make a D-day sized landing on southern Kyushu followed up by another on the Tokyo plain - turned out the Japanese had guessed the first one right and were concentrating their remaining military forces there, leaving the rest of the islands virtually undefended apart from the civilian population, who it was planned would resist by any means possible. Allied casualties were projected at anything up to 4 million - potential Japanese casualties had every man, woman and child offered resistance as was expected they would, would have have been simply staggering. It sounds completely counter-intuitive to say dropping two nukes on civilian targets was the most humane option available, but compared to the alternatives available at the time - invasion as detailed above or to continue to strategically bomb Japan into total societal collapse - it probably was. Edited April 18, 2017 by Hillonearth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 The US then significantly helped Japan build a democracy and it's economy. It most probably would have been taken by The Communist if it wasn't for the US. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 11 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: I read about a bloke who left Hiroshima as the bomb went off...and cycled to Nagasaki. A lot of people ended up as a shadow of their former self. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.