Co.Down Hibee Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It getting better though isn't it? Won't the sectarianism vanish as new generations care less and less? in some ways yes but there is a definite trend for the younger generation to be seeking an identity here, sadly there are still many of the old guard around to fill peoples minds with pish,hence dissident attacks and the various shite that has been happening over the last few days. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 So why would Catholics be offended at that particular part of the march if it's not a Catholic area? It's like pulling teeth, this. Because they can, because they are close by and, in many cases, because of their own innate bigotry. I wouldn't like an AOH parade near my old house in Belfast but if there were shops between me and the parade, and the parade took just fifteen minutes to pass, probably less, then I would just ignore it. This is highly politicised on both sides and is about territory. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 So why would Catholics be offended at that particular part of the march if it's not a Catholic area? It's like pulling teeth, this. Only because you seem unable to move beyond the propaganda line on this. It's not clear cut whether the stretch of road in question is a Loyalist or Republican area because it's one of the places where the two sides live right next to each other. One lot want to maintain the notion that it's part of their area and a natural place for them to parade, while the other lot want it to be seen as an integral part of their area and not a place where the other community should be allowed to enter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It getting better though isn't it? Won't the sectarianism vanish as new generations care less and less? No, because many communities are as divided as ever, and the bigotry of the parents lives on. Yes, communities are as divided as ever and most folk are happy to live and socialise in their "own" areas, while more often than not working in a mixed environment, but things are improving, although it will be my grandchildrens' generation who will change things provided the guns stay silent. If The Troubles take off again all bets are off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Co.Down Hibee Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Because they can, because they are close by and, in many cases, because of their own innate bigotry. I wouldn't like an AOH parade near my old house in Belfast but if there were shops between me and the parade, and the parade took just fifteen minutes to pass, probably less, then I would just ignore it. This is highly politicised on both sides and is about territory. very true ,a lot of people have gained their fifteen minutes of fame through the parades issue , some of the Orange Order and resident groups have become councillers,MLA's and had high profile meetings with various MP's . Even though they clearly had nothing positive to contribute and usually just made utter c***s of themselves on the telly. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Please show me where I have defended the actual OO? Please show us where you have condemned any of its actions without inclusively condoning it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I would agree with that entirely, but nobody would be barricaded in their homes if the Ardoyne residents actually stayed in Ardoyne, rather than congregate in their hordes on the parade route. It is not a Catholic area, and many of the offended residents arrested over the last few years had travelled great distances to be offended. There is no real alternative route because that would involve going through large nationalist areas. Maybe they should make A and B different places then, rather than expecting croppie just to lie down? I can infer from one of LTL's previous posts that it is only areas where they are met with a protest that the Orange Order think that 'they are specifically not wanted' so I think that walking a short distance to your local shop or local pub to protest their presence isn't exactly unreasonable. Being violent in your protest is inexcusable, however the crux for me (leaving my obvious dislike of the OO to one side for a moment) is that the OO's unflinching insistence upon walking somewhere because they have walked there before is at the root of the problem here. No parade through any part of Ardoyne, even past the shops - no protest. The parade can still go ahead in exactly the same manner on a non-contentious route. I can't really see why this is such a problem other than extreme stubborness, if they are merely commemorating/celebrating the Glorious Revolution and not trying to assert their supremacy over the papes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 The parade can still go ahead in exactly the same manner on a non-contentious route. I don't think it's that simple to solve. There actually is no other viable way to get from Woodvale to the Unionist areas that lie beyond the RC portion of Ardoyne. If there were an alternative route, odds on the Parades Commision would have insisted on it years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) I don't think it's that simple to solve. There actually is no other viable way to get from Woodvale to the Unionist areas that lie beyond the RC portion of Ardoyne. If there were an alternative route, odds on the Parades Commision would have insisted on it years ago. Any other route is even more contentious as far as I can make out, although AFJ knows the area a lot better than I do. Edited July 16, 2013 by Jacksgranda 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Because they can, because they are close by and, in many cases, because of their own innate bigotry. I wouldn't like an AOH parade near my old house in Belfast but if there were shops between me and the parade, and the parade took just fifteen minutes to pass, probably less, then I would just ignore it. This is highly politicised on both sides and is about territory. Fucksake. Put it this way why do they say they're offended? What's their side of the story? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Only because you seem unable to move beyond the propaganda line on this. It's not clear cut whether the stretch of road in question is a Loyalist or Republican area because it's one of the places where the two sides live right next to each other. One lot want to maintain the notion that it's part of their area and a natural place for them to parade, while the other lot want it to be seen as an integral part of their area and not a place where the other community should be allowed to enter. I don't know what the propaganda is! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I don't think it's that simple to solve. There actually is no other viable way to get from Woodvale to the Unionist areas that lie beyond the RC portion of Ardoyne. If there were an alternative route, odds on the Parades Commision would have insisted on it years ago. If you're simply commemorating the Glorious Revolution why is it necessary to go from Woodvale to the Unionist areas that lie beyond the RC portion of Ardoyne, rather than (for example) from one end of a field to the other? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyeceltic Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I think the whole thing simply requires communication. If people talk to each other they learn that we're all the same. I'd also recommend providing tea and sandwiches followed by a varied collection of cakes and biscuits. The conviviality that will be created along with the absence of filthy alcohol lends itself to resolution of differences 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 If you're simply commemorating the Glorious Revolution why is it necessary to go from Woodvale to the Unionist areas that lie beyond the RC portion of Ardoyne, rather than (for example) from one end of a field to the other? AFJ would be way more clued up on the details than me, but it all revolves around walking in from Unionist areas on the edge of the city to the city centre in the morning to join up with the main Belfast area parade and then back again in the early evening once that's over and done with. Most of the route is non-controversial and through predominantly Unionist areas, but North Belfast has a complex patchwork sort of geography when it comes to who lives where, so at one point they wind up going past rather than through a hardline Republican area. The Crumlin Road is one of the main arterial routes in that regard, so the argument on the Unionist side is that it's a shared space, while obviously the resident groups from the Ardoyne put a very different spin on things. The ruling from the Parades Commission this year was that the morning was OK, but the evening wasn't, which seems a bit bizarre to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Please show us where you have condemned any of its actions without inclusively condoning it! Can I answer your question with a question, the only difference being, I could actually answer yours, and will, when you answer mine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 (edited) The ruling from the Parades Commission this year was that the morning was OK, but the evening wasn't, which seems a bit bizarre to me. Anything to do with the very real possibility that many of the rowdy mob of followers of the march would be be buckfasted up in the evening and at their worst in regards to rowdy and abusive towards their enemies? Edited July 16, 2013 by Saor Alba 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 That is a very good point but, in previous years,the followers were not allowed past this area, just two lodges and a band, which wasn't allowed to play as it passed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Anything to do with the very real possibility that many of the rowdy mob of followers of the march would be be buckfasted up in the evening and at their worst in regards to rowdy and abusive towards their enemies?Yep. No different to certain football matches not being allowed early kick-offs etc..Quite why folk can't see this is beyond me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saor Alba Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Can I answer your question with a question, the only difference being, I could actually answer yours, and will, when you answer mine. Feel free. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audaces Fortuna Juvat Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Whoosh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.