mid-table Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Can anyone tell me the percentage payouts? I know most "pub puggies" operate at about 70odd percent of stakes paid out but it's a bit more complex than that - depends on amount of cash in the machine - if it's just "paid out".The slots on FOBTs pay out approximately 90-92%, the roulette should pay out the standard 97.3%. The blackjack payout depends on who is playing it. The payout of money that goes into the machine is reckoned to be around 50%. For example, if I start with £100 and win exactly my 97.3% payout on each spin, then after 25 spins I would be left with £50.45. I would have turned over £1,835.36 in those 25 spins (£100, then £97.30, then £94.67, and so on). A really important thing to point out here relates to what you mentioned above. A fruit machine uses a pseudorandom number generator, and the 70% payout is managed by the computer in the machine, so if someone has just won the jackpot you would do better to avoid it for a while as it needs to balance out to make it's 70% payout. FOBTs use true random number generators, so if someone wins £500 on a roulette spin, the chance of winning £500 on the next roulette spin is exactly the same as before. The margin is made in the mathematical over-round of the game, not a computer deciding when to pay out and when not to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gus Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 That is pretty fascinating - thanks. I'm out of green ones again but owe you a dot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mid-table Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I was aware that some of the figures I quoted earlier in this topic were from the William Hill 2007 Annual Report, so I had a look at their 2012 annual report. A few things stuck out; This may surprise some people who think that internet betting has taken over, but shops still account for 2/3 of revenue, with online betting making up the other 1/3; The customer loss on their FOBTs was £437million (£911 x 52.18 weeks x 9,195 machines); Over 17,000 people self-excluded from William Hill during 2012, up from 11,000 in 2011. On the basis that many, many more people who have problems haven't excluded, this gives some indication as to the size of the problem; William Hill donated £821,800 to responsible gambling charities. Very noble of them, but it is actually 0.064% of the £1,276,900,000 that customers lost during the year. I'm picking on William Hill here, I just happened to choose them as they are the company I have looked at before. But bear in mind that these figures are for one company only, repeat for Ladbrokes, Coral, PaddyPower, and so on and the numbers start to look even more frightening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Glad you joined in after this thread settled down MT, they were in their infancy when I was stopping gambling, I remember watching a major gambler playing roulette, my mental reaction was "I'm fcuked if I get into them", that's ,me as a serious addict for 20 odd years at the time. I remember speaking to herion addicts and asking them why they didn't do crack, "I'm fcuked if I get into that stuff" or something similar was their reply. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) Both terminals and puggies count a lost gamble as a payout as well, offered a quid or gamble to 2,lose the gamble and the machin still registers that original quid as a payout that you simply didnt accept Plus most machines dont need to hit their payout target early, the 70% can be over the course of say 5 grand put in the machine, thats how a lot of machines have mega streaks and can go on payout cycles where jackpots are guaranteed Edited November 10, 2013 by 53_and_counting 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 mid-table, are you able to tell me if the cartoon racing uses RNG? if so, have they always used a RNG.? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 mid-table, are you able to tell me if the cartoon racing uses RNG? if so, have they always used a RNG.? As far as I am aware, certainly with the modern ones, it is a yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardinal Richelieu Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Both terminals and puggies count a lost gamble as a payout as well, offered a quid or gamble to 2,lose the gamble and the machin still registers that original quid as a payout that you simply didnt accept Plus most machines dont need to hit their payout target early, the 70% can be over the course of say 5 grand put in the machine, thats how a lot of machines have mega streaks and can go on payout cycles where jackpots are guaranteed Puggies don't. If you turn down a £70 jackpot, either out of carelessness or cos it would be to your advantage, the machine will still want to pay it out. It might not offer it straight away, but it defo won't count the non-collected jackpot as a payout. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 As far as I am aware, certainly with the modern ones, it is a yes. It must have been coincidental in my day that pre football on a Saturday horses with names like Rangers Lad, Celtic Boy and Liverpool Girl appeared to win very regularly, I just thought it was a cunning ploy by bookmakers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 It must have been coincidental in my day that pre football on a Saturday horses with names like Rangers Lad, Celtic Boy and Liverpool Girl appeared to win very regularly, I just thought it was a cunning ploy by bookmakers. Yes but if you looked closely every horse in the race probably had a football related name! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 It must have been coincidental in my day that pre football on a Saturday horses with names like Rangers Lad, Celtic Boy and Liverpool Girl appeared to win very regularly, I just thought it was a cunning ploy by bookmakers. Virtual Racing is a visual representation of a computerised random number draw. The odds of the different horses (or dogs) are created by having the horses with the lower odds have more numbers in the draw than horses with higher odds 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mid-table Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 mid-table, are you able to tell me if the cartoon racing uses RNG? if so, have they always used a RNG.? As far as I am aware, certainly with the modern ones, it is a yes. It must have been coincidental in my day that pre football on a Saturday horses with names like Rangers Lad, Celtic Boy and Liverpool Girl appeared to win very regularly, I just thought it was a cunning ploy by bookmakers. Agree with the other response, these days they do but I don't think that has always been the case. Inspired are the main company who supply virtual racing, and these days it is all server-based gaming using a remote RNG. Regardless of what you think about virtual racing, the new generation of graphics that went live in 2011 is unbelievably realistic. I think I'm smart enough to differentiate between reality and CGI, but the first time I saw it I actually thought I was watching a real horse race. On one of the very early FOBTs, I can't remember what company supplied but it was the type in the picture below, I was messing about on virtual racing one day. A race finished, the result came up, and then the list of runners came up for the next race. It was exactly the same race as before. I remembered the result, stuck on the maximum bet, and sure enough the same horse won at 14/1, and I picked up £500. I believe there was a database of races, and the same race was chosen twice in a row. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
54_and_counting Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Puggies don't. If you turn down a £70 jackpot, either out of carelessness or cos it would be to your advantage, the machine will still want to pay it out. It might not offer it straight away, but it defo won't count the non-collected jackpot as a payout. Think it does both in that instance, boy that worked part time with us used to work on them, like you say if a jackpot is ignored the machine will still want to spill its guts at som point, but you'll find the lesser wins will be less frequent as it counts the jackpot as "paid out" The deal or no deal type machine are worst for losing a jackpot, no casual gambler will knock back say 25 quid when they have 4 blues and a jackpot left on he board lol (yes i have done this before) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambie's Pigeon Feed Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Always interesting to hear about how it works from people that know. So while you're all here... Are there any details about which games on the FOBT's get the most wagered on thjem? I'd bet on roulette being the answer if the data is available. And out of curiosity is there a particular game/bet that is the, for want of a better word, 'muggiest' bet a punter can make with a bookie/casino (nothing sportsbook related). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlue62 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 That is excellent. Being a compulsive gambler this is a great start! I never played them myself but heard some horrific stories of people who have. Hopefully it happens in more places very soon! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 That is excellent. Being a compulsive gambler this is a great start! I never played them myself but heard some horrific stories of people who have. Hopefully it happens in more places very soon! How are you getting on with gambling or lack of it? I do remember you posting awhile back about heading for GA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBlue62 Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 How are you getting on with gambling or lack of it? I do remember you posting awhile back about heading for GA. Well I went Oct 2010, got 2 years off and have gambled a couple of times after that. Last bet was the start of last month. I'm back in town I started though so recovery is going well again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mid-table Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Always interesting to hear about how it works from people that know. So while you're all here... Are there any details about which games on the FOBT's get the most wagered on thjem? I'd bet on roulette being the answer if the data is available. And out of curiosity is there a particular game/bet that is the, for want of a better word, 'muggiest' bet a punter can make with a bookie/casino (nothing sportsbook related). The data is definitely available, just not to the likes of you and me. There have been calls in the government triennial review for this data to be made available. Some of the reporting data you can get out of the system is phenomenal, have a look at this page for some of the stats available. You can break it down by game, stake, time of day, day of week, to identify the most profitable anything. I would imagine that stud poker is the muggiest in a casino. In a bookmakers I would suggest that a 5 number bet on the 49s is the muggiest. Odds are 317,813/1, payout is 124,999/1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well I went Oct 2010, got 2 years off and have gambled a couple of times after that. Last bet was the start of last month. I'm back in town I started though so recovery is going well again. You probably wouldn't have believed that was possible in Sept 2010,just try and learn from your slips and look for situations that provide mental triggers that strengthen your fortitude on your journey to normality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mid-table Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 You probably wouldn't have believed that was possible in Sept 2010,just try and learn from your slips and look for situations that provide mental triggers that strengthen your fortitude on your journey to normality. I presume you mean metaphorical slips, not betting slips 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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