Jamaldo Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 It's never been an economic argument for me. The issue is not independence but who makes the decisions at the top. That won't change as things stand with or without independence. Working people will still be treated like crap no matter who wins. Scotland's problems are not the fault of the union per se but of a political system that has been abused by the ruling elites over the years. Until there is genuine democracy, one where patronage does not exist, then things won't get better. So you're basically saying we may as well just not bother? That comment could only have been worse if you had said, "There's no point because all the big decisions are made in Brussels anyway". -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Looks like we're about to head into the next phase of the referendum debate. Watch out for a big push very shortly (and as predicted) from the Unionist parties for devo max/federalism. As I said months ago, when you see this happening the Unionists are very worried about losing. I also said at the time, not putting that kind of option on the ballot paper was a major blunder. Watch this space... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 So you're basically saying we may as well just not bother? That comment could only have been worse if you had said, "There's no point because all the big decisions are made in Brussels anyway". The exact opposite. Let's say there is independence - will there be this land of milk and honey that we are being promised? No. Equally will things still be rosy in the garden if there is a vote against independence? No again. That doesn't mean do nothing - it means do something about the corrupt system that screws working folk no matter who is in power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The exact opposite. Let's say there is independence - will there be this land of milk and honey that we are being promised? No. Equally will things still be rosy in the garden if there is a vote against independence? No again. That doesn't mean do nothing - it means do something about the corrupt system that screws working folk no matter who is in power. That'll be easier done in independence, Westminster acts like someone afraid the dodgy pictures are going to be made public, if the SNP fcuk it up we'll punt them, same with the lot after that and the lot after that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidthebaw Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I'm a reluctant no. I really want to vote yes but one of my family members will lose their job in the event of independence. Morbid. Anas Sawar is your brother? Seriously how will he lose his job? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidthebaw Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I know 20 people in my immediate social circle, most of them since school. Not one 'no' voter, all 'Yes' voting intentionand all former labour voters as well. I only know one person who says he'll vote No but he's just says shit to wind people up. YES is the best thing for us and the rest of the UK. A chance to give a shock to westminster and give rUK the opportunity to reform democracy down there. The people are being lied to by the NO lot. There are no explanations of what happens in the event of a YES or NO vote from the unionist parties. That would piss me off if I was undecided about the whole thing, that I have to rely on one side for information while the other side just insults my intelligence by presuming their scare stories would work in absence of any positive vision of what being in the UK means. Also the absence of any balance and information in the MSM is an insult. People want facts not assertion, opinion or rehased scare stories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) In case anyone on here was thinking of attending, the YES Edinburgh East stall in Portobello has now been cancelled. Thoughts and prayers are with those affected by the terrible events in Glasgow. I'm thinking most if not all events on both sides of the fence will be cancelled today as well. edit - apparently BT round my bit never got the email, they were out delivering leaflets. Edited November 30, 2013 by Mr Rational 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I dont really get why these events on the other side if the country would be cancelled? Unless key speakers were doing news stuff in glasgow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/29/independent-scotland-britons-salmond-moderate-social-democracy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOGI IS GOD Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Kevin McKenna's latest Guardian article is extremely critical of Better Together http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/30/better-together-scottish-independence-paper One paragraph stood out: "There are many reasons why Better Together would never dare to produce its own white paper entitled "Britain's Future". For how could any Scottish Labour supporter subscribe to a document that would talk of penalising the poor; cutting the taxes of the rich; allowing our defence and intelligence policies to resemble those of Texas and re-introducing a light touch for bankers? Not to mention leaving Europe and telling immigrants to go home." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Kevin McKenna's latest Guardian article is extremely critical of Better Together http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/30/better-together-scottish-independence-paper One paragraph stood out: "There are many reasons why Better Together would never dare to produce its own white paper entitled "Britain's Future". For how could any Scottish Labour supporter subscribe to a document that would talk of penalising the poor; cutting the taxes of the rich; allowing our defence and intelligence policies to resemble those of Texas and re-introducing a light touch for bankers? Not to mention leaving Europe and telling immigrants to go home." The one thing that has kept Better Together in with a chance is having the mainstream media on their side throughout. This is a break from that. Lose the media backing and they have nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingsoverperthshire Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Kevin McKenna's piece was going good until........ "The following day at Holyrood, Johann Lamont, Labour's Scottish leader and an increasingly impressive performer in the chamber" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaldo Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Kevin McKenna's piece was going good until........ "The following day at Holyrood, Johann Lamont, Labour's Scottish leader and an increasingly impressive performer in the chamber" Was going to say the same thing. Then again on the upside you know that it wasn't a piece simply designed to get Better Together to up their game as there's obviously still some delusion in amongst the media. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 The one thing that has kept Better Together in with a chance is having the mainstream media on their side throughout. This is a break from that. Lose the media backing and they have nothing. Probably right, and this might be what happened in 2011. I'm lax to say that "it woz the sun wot wun it", because on this occasion, they jumped on the bandwagon, but a lot of the media deserted Labour this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/29/independent-scotland-britons-salmond-moderate-social-democracy Reading Scotland's Future, I couldn't at first account for a faint twinge of melancholy, a recognition. Then it dawned on me. The Scotland being here described – or proposed – was the Britain so passionately hoped for by the millions who voted for Tony Blair, back in 1997. The above struck a large chord with me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 http://m.scotsman.com/news/eddie-barnes-foes-in-high-places-1-3215335 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOGI IS GOD Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Another good article in The Guardian today - Ian Martin: Please, Scotland, vote Yes and take us northerners with you 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) If I was Alex Salmond, I'd start leaking documents floating the idea of a land swap. You know, if you're not letting us keep "your" pound, and you're trying to steal our sea, maybe we should look at the land border? We'll agree to give you the current sea borders and shoulder a share of debt, but we'll take Newcastle, Carlisle, and Berwick. After all, Britain proposed to do something similar, except they proposed to annex rather than swap. Incidentally, I meant to quote this from the article above: People of the north, it's time to choose. English? Or Scottish? Here's a shibboleth for you – the word "supper". If it suggests an informal meal in someone's kitchen involving salad, white wine and moaning about school fees, you're English. If it suggests something battered with chips, you're Scottish. Pwoud. Edited December 1, 2013 by xbl 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiddy Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Well, the latest P&B poll puts yes at 81%, up from 66%. What are the latest State Media polls saying? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOGI IS GOD Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 (edited) NBC have published an interesting story on an American college student converted to the cause of Scottish independence after interning for an Angus Robertson at Westminster. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/43152363/ns/world_news-europe/t/all-american-scottish-nationalist-why-uk-should-split/#.Upu5jdJdUpM Edited December 1, 2013 by YOGI IS GOD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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