Latest Polls and Latest Odds

[lichtgilphead]

7 minutes ago, Jedi2 said:

Maybe check out:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/kate-forbes-economic-agenda-dangerous-snp-leadership-race-scotland-conservative/

Including: 'Forbes writes, the plan is for Scotland to become a “magnet for inward investment and global private capital”. (Normally a prelude to low tax, light touch regulation, strip public services and sell off assets)

She was of course, a key player in the decade of austerity 'Growth Commission' plan to make deeper cuts to public services than Osbourne.

Add in her views on 'social' issues and perhaps is she sounds and acts like a Tory, then....

Did she back Brexit as Natalie Elphicke (who for the record, I wouldn't have had in the Labour Party) did?..No, but if its okay to have a Deputy FM who wouldn't be out of place in the Conservative Party...

 

 

Whilst Forbes does demonstrate some moderate right wing viewpoints, you said that she was "an extreme right winger"

Not all Tories are extreme right wingers.

Please provide some evidence to show these extreme right wing views you ascribe to her, preferably comparing with Labour MP Natalie Elphicke's demonstrable right-wing lunacy

 

[Jedi2]

Glad to see that a decade of swinging cuts to public services to implement austerity further and faster than the Tory govt from 2010-16 isn't considered to be 'extremely right wing' yet supporting Brexit, and criticising Marcus Rashford's free school meal campaign is.

Kate Forbes has also been deemed on the 'further' to the right wing on her views of same-sez marriage, equality, sexuality, and trans rights.

In summary...social and exotic views on the right in the SNP=good, social and economic views on the right of the Tories (who defect)=shameful.

Again, I wouldn't have accepted Natalie Elphicke into the Labour Party, (indeed..is she a 'lunatic'..yes), but nor would I seek to defend Forbes economic outlook etc.

Whether the Tory is wearing a blue, red, or (yellow and black) rosette, they are still a Tory.

 

Edited May 10 by Jedi2

[GTee]

I just want competency from a Scottish government before considering Independence.

A similar competency that we get from a UK government, and pretty much most governments.

No financial 'black holes' and stuff.

Clearly not possible as devolved government though.

Scotland - does what England decides. 

A pathetic 'Country'

 

[Jedi2]

1 hour ago, BFTD said:

Well, it's not at all depressing that we've arrived at "hey, we may be full of Tories, but you've got a great big predatory Tory too".

At least if you want independence, you've got some kind of issue to vote for; I've no idea what non-Tory Unionists are voting for these days. I suppose the Family Party have Jeebus although, let's be honest, they don't actually like him much.

Ah, but as we know, 'Tories' in the SNP are 'good' Tories, and if they get to implement their economic policies post-Independence, so be it.

I am looking forward to the SNP's 'honest' upcoming GE pitch...'make us Independent this time, you will be worse off and have a desert of public services for 10 years, (cause that George Osbourne was a wet Liberal) but it will be sunshine and flowers after that'

Edited May 10 by Jedi2

[BFTD]

So weird to be angry about the SNP's Tory policies and public services being ravaged when that's exactly what will be happening for the next decade even if every independence voter and party dies tomorrow.

I don't see any Labour voters even arguing otherwise now; the only ones celebrating the possible return of SLab are just delighted at the prospect of the SNP losing out of the same old bitterness from decades ago, not because they think their party might actually do anything other than managed decline until the Conservatives recover from Truss.

[GTee]

Good chance we'll vote Scottish Labour (lol) in an independent Scotland. 

It's a no from me now until then.

[lichtgilphead]

Jedi, this is even more pathetic than your usual nonsense. Kate Forbes is not the SNP, and has signed up to collective cabinet responsibility.

If the SNP manifesto contains extreme right wing policy positions, then they are unlikely to get my vote.

However, having one slightly right wing cabinet member does not mean that the SNP manifesto will consist of "Stop the Boats" 

Incidentaly, you still haven't provided proof of any of Kate Forbes extreme right wing views. Opposing same sex marriage & abortion are not exclusively extreme right wing opinions, no matter how much you and I may disagree with those views.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

8 hours ago, lichtgilphead said:

Jedi, this is even more pathetic than your usual nonsense. Kate Forbes is not the SNP, and has signed up to collective cabinet responsibility.

If the SNP manifesto contains extreme right wing policy positions, then they are unlikely to get my vote.

However, having one slightly right wing cabinet member does not mean that the SNP manifesto will consist of "Stop the Boats" 

Incidentaly, you still haven't provided proof of any of Kate Forbes extreme right wing views. Opposing same sex marriage & abortion are not exclusively extreme right wing opinions, no matter how much you and I may disagree with those views.

It's interesting to see how the terms 'right wing' and 'left wing' have evolved over time.

Che Guevara, that lovely character many leftists display on t-shirts, was a homophobic racist.

As a practising Christian, I don't think my tribe has anything to fear from same sex marriage.  The bible is clear in what marriage, and as a believer I must adhere to that, but we're not a theocracy. 
 

If we made everything fit the teachings of the bible then we'd be arresting people for swearing, adultery and suchlike too.  There's only so far you can go! 

Edited May 11 by CarrbridgeSaintee

[Jedi2]

I can recall back in 1997, that we heard 'folk are only voting Labour because the Tories have been a mess for years/the Tories will be back in, next election/ New Labour are just the Tories in disguise/ all they will do is manage decline for the next 4 years'

Same govt went on to give us record levels of funding for public services, the Minimum Wage, Devolution in Scotland, a Peace Settlement in Northern Ireland, Sure Start Centres, Human Rights Act, 3 million more people in work, crime rates halved, Educational Maintenance Allowance, low inflation, debt write off for 100% of the poorest countries in the world.

Same refrains then as now..

'They are just Red Tories'

'They don't have any policies/won't do what they promise anyway'.

Time will tell..

[Wee-Bey]

[welshbairn]

 

[BFTD]

Oaksoft's right, in that the Labour Party also used to be anti-immigrant, because their primary concern was the welfare of the working class. The world changes over time. Being a homophobic racist was also the default a hundred years ago, so anyone who wasn't deserves credit more than anyone needs to be picked out for it. I'd rather you went down the blood-and-thunder American born-again route however, as there's a lot more scope for comedy there and will let you get back to your favourite subjects.

Jedi, the problem (as you appeared to be admitting yourself recently) is that this Labour Party is promising nothing, and change that nothing on a weekly basis. Absolutely nobody thought New Labour didn't have policies, even if most of them involved kicking the ball down the road for future governments to deal with. This nonsense is as deluded as the people who thought Blair was going to be the reincarnation of Harold Wilson.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

23 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Here’s a better thread on it all

Almost every poll I’ve seen post-BHAgate has seen the Greens gain seats.

I genuinely don't know who they are questioning because my impression is that people across the political spectrum are pissed off with the Greens. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

1 hour ago, Jedi2 said:

I can recall back in 1997, that we heard 'folk are only voting Labour because the Tories have been a mess for years/the Tories will be back in, next election/ New Labour are just the Tories in disguise/ all they will do is manage decline for the next 4 years'

Same govt went on to give us record levels of funding for public services, the Minimum Wage, Devolution in Scotland, a Peace Settlement in Northern Ireland, Sure Start Centres, Human Rights Act, 3 million more people in work, crime rates halved, Educational Maintenance Allowance, low inflation, debt write off for 100% of the poorest countries in the world.

Same refrains then as now..

'They are just Red Tories'

'They don't have any policies/won't do what they promise anyway'.

Time will tell..

There's a huge difference.

Blair might have been a right wing shitebag but even he knew not to bin most of the policies he inherited from John Smith.

Can you honestly say that there isn't a policy that Starmer won't bin to get elected?

I can't.

Edited May 11 by DeeTillEhDeh

[Freedom Farter]

5 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Che Guevara, that lovely character many leftists display on t-shirts, was a homophobic racist.

Here's a convincing argument to the contrary, if you have the time:

https://youtu.be/F5eFPgvhS60?si=MNA0NPRZ55azlE9X

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

Here's a convincing argument to the contrary, if you have the time:

https://youtu.be/F5eFPgvhS60?si=MNA0NPRZ55azlE9X

Cheers bud, I’ll give it a watch.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

On 10/05/2024 at 09:52, ICTChris said:

Redfield and WIlton poll has Labour lead in Westminister

 

 

The Greens really are just a small fringe group on a par with the Reform party. It's crazy they've had such a strong say on policy for the past 3 years. Unsurprisingly the SNP have been tanking ever they got into bed with them.

Sturgeon's reputation is in tatters for many things but allowing weirdos to have influence on her was the catalyst.
 

 

[SandyCromarty]

I vote SNP at every election, as does my family, as we regard the party as the vehicle to Independence.

Unionists and the media continually attack and snipe at the SNP Government like those wee schoolboy bullies we all knew.

What they fail to understand is that all of their sniping means fuckin zip to us and all other Independent minded folks as our votes will always go to the party for Independence and one day we will get there make no mistake.

[scottsdad]

8 hours ago, BFTD said:

Oaksoft's right, in that the Labour Party also used to be anti-immigrant, because their primary concern was the welfare of the working class. The world changes over time. Being a homophobic racist was also the default a hundred years ago, so anyone who wasn't deserves credit more than anyone needs to be picked out for it. I'd rather you went down the blood-and-thunder American born-again route however, as there's a lot more scope for comedy there and will let you get back to your favourite subjects.

Jedi, the problem (as you appeared to be admitting yourself recently) is that this Labour Party is promising nothing, and change that nothing on a weekly basis. Absolutely nobody thought New Labour didn't have policies, even if most of them involved kicking the ball down the road for future governments to deal with. This nonsense is as deluded as the people who thought Blair was going to be the reincarnation of Harold Wilson.

Not convinced he is old Oaky.

Oaksoft could engage, make jokes. He also had a bit of empathy and understanding. He posted loads and loads on every subject under the sun. He called me "fucking arrogant".

Of course, for balance, he was a bit cranially detached. On many subjects, not least gender and energy prices. 

[Highlandmagar]

12 hours ago, Jedi2 said:

I can recall back in 1997, that we heard 'folk are only voting Labour because the Tories have been a mess for years/the Tories will be back in, next election/ New Labour are just the Tories in disguise/ all they will do is manage decline for the next 4 years'

Same govt went on to give us record levels of funding for public services, the Minimum Wage, Devolution in Scotland, a Peace Settlement in Northern Ireland, Sure Start Centres, Human Rights Act, 3 million more people in work, crime rates halved, Educational Maintenance Allowance, low inflation, debt write off for 100% of the poorest countries in the world.

Same refrains then as now..

'They are just Red Tories'

'They don't have any policies/won't do what they promise anyway'.

Time will tell..

Time will tell. Did a Blair government welcome with open arms extreme right wing loonballs? Was Blair as unpopular as Starmer is? Did Blair/ Brown cartwheel in just about every policy decision? No they didn't. Starmer's party sit right at the position of actraditional right wing Tory Party, whilst they have gone to the extreme right.