Golden Gordon Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: We've entered an alternate universe where the 'doom and gloom' merchants are overly excited because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. the 'happy clappers' have decided life is going to be terrible because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. The rest of us are sitting back, letting it play out and will see where it goes. Ha ha! Can't argue with that, it'll ultimately be better, worse or the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Exactly. I've let it play out for almost a fortnight. You are, of course, right by the way. I actually just reject the idea that the previous management were content with mediocrity and the club has had a sudden awakening to want more than a single trophy. At their best they fell short of the targets they set themselves and then it tailed off after we lost the guts of the team that got us there. I suspect Mcinnes himself will look back with huge regret at missed opportunities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFCDannyFTH Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: So rampant successful would be 1 more Cup a decade and benefiting from Rangers success thanks to an improved coefficient dropping 3rd straight into the groups? Truly reaching for the stars. Clubs die, Players and Managers come and go, but one constant is that RandomGuy will always be a fucking idiot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game of throw-ins Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) As an Aberdeen fan I would rather we won a cup than finish 3rd. But I still wouldn't use cup success as the yardstick for judging a manager. Unless you only play ties where you are overwhelming favourites, cup runs are hugely a matter of chance. In Scotland Celtic and Rangers can realistically target cups because their financial strength (and virtual home advantage in the later stages) gives them a very high probability of winning even in a one-off tie, except against one another. The way that probability works in football means that in the modern Scottish game other clubs can only win cups when they have very high levels of luck. You can see the truth of this by looking at a list of cup-winners outside Rangers and Celtic in the past 20 years. What do these cup winners have in common, the thing that explains their success in that particular year? The answer is, pretty much zero. They were not usually outstanding or even particularly good sides. They were not normally the best side in the country discounting Rangers and Celtic. You hear fatuous talk about cup specialists, but that's basically just a tag retrospectively fitted to a team that was lucky enough to win a cup. They didn't need to have an outstanding or even good manager. If winning a cup was the mark of a good manager you'd expect a guy who won a cup with a provincial side to stay in the job as long as he wanted it - he's got nothing to prove. In fact it's by no means rare for a cup win to be followed by the manager being sacked for under-performing within a relatively short time. Boards of directors are not fooled that that the guy who won a cup is a brilliant manager. The last manager to win a cup for us prior to McInnes was the abysmal and soon to be dismissed Roy Aitken. I'm not denying that a manager who's built the 3rd best team in the country has a better chance of winning a cup than a guy who's built the 5th or 8th best team. But not, in Scottish football, nearly as much better a chance as fans commonly think. In fact when Rangers and Celtic both stumble it's pretty much in the lap of the gods which of the 10 or 12 teams below them get lucky. All an Aberdeen manager can do is build the best side he realistically can and hope this is the year we get the breaks. So yes, winning a cup matters more than finishing 3rd. But finishing 3rd - especially consistently - is a much more reliable indicator of a good manager than winning a cup. Edited March 18, 2021 by Game of throw-ins 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 25 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: You are, of course, right by the way. I actually just reject the idea that the previous management were content with mediocrity and the club has had a sudden awakening to want more than a single trophy. At their best they fell short of the targets they set themselves and then it tailed off after we lost the guts of the team that got us there. I suspect Mcinnes himself will look back with huge regret at missed opportunities. Aye. Derek was pragmatic at heart. When the chips are down managers tend to go to what they know best. He was also under pressure and in that circumstance it's an even bigger gamble than usual to go out of your comfort zone. It's easy to forget we were probably a misplaced pass/McLean getting too excited away from winning the Scottish Cup. In hindsight it was the support from the old regime that probably killed him. He was allowed to let players contracts run down as a gamble to try and progress. Looking back we probably should have sold players a year earlier than we let them go and sign a replacement. We couldn't have ended up much worse than where we were when we replaced them for nothing anyway. The season we finished runners up in every competition aside. Jack, Taylor and McGinn may have been a step too far. 17 minutes ago, CCB19035 said: I'm cautiously excited, the noises are good. I'm where you are at but they keyword is noise. Making promises is so easy. Delivering is where Dave needs to show he has it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 33 minutes ago, CCB19035 said: I'm cautiously excited, the noises are good. That's how I feel. I took a lot of flak on here for questioning Cormack at the start of the season (in main regarding season ticket marketing) and I wasn't particularly happy about his constant calls to get supporters back in the stadium, his considerable social media presence, or his proposed Q&A with supporters. However, that 17 minute 'interview' combined with the swift action to remove a toiling McInnes/Docherty has got me starting to believe again. There's going to be a few bumps in the road for sure and managerial appointments are going to be reflective of how much ambition he truly has for AFC but there are reasons for optimism. I've haven't felt particularly optimistic since the summer of 2017 about the Dons. I don't expect a league challenge next season but if we can reignite the supporters passion for the club then it would be a great start. I want to feel that momentum build around the club again that had dissipated away to nothing in the final McInnes years. Edited March 18, 2021 by Bogbrush1903 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Illgresi said: Make up your mind; is he being over or under ambitious? Kindly pick one and stick with it. He's just stirring shite. As usual 1 hour ago, Golden Gordon said: Ha ha! Can't argue with that, it'll ultimately be better, worse or the same. You should be an economist 46 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: Aye. Derek was pragmatic at heart. When the chips are down managers tend to go to what they know best. He was also under pressure and in that circumstance it's an even bigger gamble than usual to go out of your comfort zone. It's easy to forget we were probably a misplaced pass/McLean getting too excited away from winning the Scottish Cup. In hindsight it was the support from the old regime that probably killed him. He was allowed to let players contracts run down as a gamble to try and progress. Looking back we probably should have sold players a year earlier than we let them go and sign a replacement. We couldn't have ended up much worse than where we were when we replaced them for nothing anyway. The season we finished runners up in every competition aside. Jack, Taylor and McGinn may have been a step too far. I'm where you are at but they keyword is noise. Making promises is so easy. Delivering is where Dave needs to show he has it. I still have nightmares about that. Knew we were going to lose after that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: He's just stirring shite. As usual You should be an economist I still have nightmares about that. Knew we were going to lose after that. Maybe you should go into insurance, you seem to like your multi-quote packages... (boom, tish) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said: Maybe you should go into insurance, you seem to like your multi-quote packages... (boom, tish) I had them all quoted separately then merged them, so maybe you're onto something... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Merkland Red said: We've entered an alternate universe where the 'doom and gloom' merchants are overly excited because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. the 'happy clappers' have decided life is going to be terrible because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. The rest of us are sitting back, letting it play out and will see where it goes. There is no middle ground between happy clapper and doom merchant. If you aren't one, you must be the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, coprolite said: There is no middle ground between happy clapper and doom merchant. If you aren't one, you must be the other. Can you not be a happy merchant or a doom clapper? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: doom clapper? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d31 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) 13 hours ago, kingjoey said: Which should we prioritise, a cup win or Europe? There has been a massive clamour this season from our fans saying that this is the season to finish third as this will guarantee entry to the Group stages of the European Conference League. I’ve always thought that this wasn’t the case and I’ve just read what awaits Scottish clubs next season. Unless Celtic or Rangers win the Scottish Cup, third and fourth place in the league would mean three qualifying rounds to get into the Group Stages of the Conference League. The Holy Grail is to win the Scottish Cup which gives you one qualifying round only to get into the Europa League, but if you fail to get through that, you automatically go into the Group Stage of the Conference League. So not only do you win a cup but you get European games until December at least. Despite what most of our fans are saying, this isn’t the year to finish third, this is the year to win the Scottish Cup. assuming a top three club win the scottish cup the place would be for the third placed team but hey winning the scottish cup would be pretty damn good. the new manager would be a legend straightaway. Edited March 18, 2021 by d31 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Fully agree - you have to imagine the chances of one of the top three winning the cup is about 1/6...............but this would be a bloody good year to win it. This season may just f**ked up enough for that to be a possibility...............cue a 1-0 defeat to Dumbarton in a couple of weeks ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Is there a reason why winning a trophy and finishing third are deemed mutually exclusive to one another? I'd like both. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, Merkland Red said: We've entered an alternate universe where the 'doom and gloom' merchants are overly excited because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. the 'happy clappers' have decided life is going to be terrible because we don't have Derek McInnes in charge. The rest of us are sitting back, letting it play out and will see where it goes. Those of a doomed up persuasion (of which I include myself) have had their Prozac with heads rolling and Dave serving up some crazy talk during a period of turmoil. Whilst those with a usually uncritical eye have realised the clapping will have to stop temporarily whilst we rearrange the deckchairs on the good ship Titanic. Order will be restored soon enough. Would it be true to say that the doomed are more likely to be left-wing politically whilst the happy clappers are more Conservative and right-wing in nature? Whilst the middle ground (if there is one) would be Liberal Democrats (if there are any)? Edited March 19, 2021 by Bogbrush1903 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 7 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said: Would it be true to say that the doomed are more likely to be left-wing politically whilst the happy clappers are more Conservative and right-wing in nature? Whilst the middle ground (if there is one) would be Liberal Democrats (if there are any)? If you make this your PhD, it would make you a Doctor of Football! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 8 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said: Those of a doomed up persuasion (of which I include myself) have had their Prozac with heads rolling and Dave serving up some crazy talk during a period of turmoil. Whilst those with a usually uncritical eye have realised the clapping will have to stop temporarily whilst we rearrange the deckchairs on the good ship Titanic. Order will be restored soon enough. Would it be true to say that the doomed are more likely to be left-wing politically whilst the happy clappers are more Conservative and right-wing in nature? Whilst the middle ground (if there is one) would be Liberal Democrats (if there are any)? I consider myself middle ground but would feel quite ill at the thought of being a lib dem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Gordon Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 53 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: I consider myself middle ground but would feel quite ill at the thought of being a lib dem. Yep, just the sight of Willie Rennie's face is enough to fill me with rage. Reminds me of the wee guy who would always suck up to the school bully so they didn't get battered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 56 minutes ago, Golden Gordon said: Yep, just the sight of Willie Rennie's face is enough to fill me with rage. Reminds me of the wee guy who would always suck up to the school bully so they didn't get battered. I think someone else also took exception to Rennie's face. Hopefully one of the supporters from the other teams will pop up shortly with one of those hilarious sheep quips... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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