tarapoa Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) Our pre-match chat in the cafe bar place over coffee and eventually one drink, was that was maybe having such an air of low expectation and low numbers might work for us. Also, as mentioned, it isn't the bigger profile matches that have been this team's problem - and Celtic's defence is there to be got at. It was a really good first half and I will never tire of watching that pass from Clarkson. The outcome of the post HT tweaks possibly felt like experienced Rodgers vs inexperienced Leven - but fair play to PL for the use of the subs, we stayed in the game and deserved to take it to ET. The scenes after both the late equalisers will live with us for a long time. Sometimes it's maybe better just to take the diehards to these occasions ! It is gutting that this takes it to 35 years and ends the prospect of another continental sojourn, but on the latter, the inability of construct or trust a squad capable of handling the demands of that has ultimately outdone us. Showing up so well yesterday is still no guarantee of not being drawn back into the play-off dogfight, as none of these remaining fixtures (other than maybe Easter Rd) will be against sides that give the team the time and space they got yesterday. Still work to do, but trust PL has enough about him to sort that. Edited April 21 by tarapoa 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Yeah I think we’ve seen this movie enough this season to know this isn’t ’the start of something’. We can’t accuse this team of not giving us some ‘moments’ this season. A few more mundane wins would be nice though. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1GregStewart Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, tarapoa said: Our pre-match chat in the cafe bar place over coffee and eventually one drink, was that was maybe having such an air of low expectation and low numbers might work for us. Also, as mentioned, it isn't the bigger profile matches that have been this team's problem - and Celtic's defence is there to be got at. It was a really good first half and I will never tire of watching that pass from Clarkson. The outcome of the post HT tweaks possibly felt like experienced Rodgers vs inexperienced Leven - but fair play to PL for the use of the subs, we stayed in the game and deserved to take it to ET. The scenes after both the late equalisers will live with us for a long time. Sometimes it's maybe better just to take the diehards to these occasions ! It is gutting that this takes it to 35 years and ends the prospect of another continental sojourn, but on the latter, the inability of construct or trust a squad capable of handling the demands of that has ultimately outdone us. Showing up so well yesterday is still no guarantee of not being drawn back into the play-off dogfight, as none of these remaining fixtures (other than maybe Easter Rd) will be against sides that give the team the time and space they got yesterday. Still work to do, but trust PL has enough about him to sort that. Agree with every single word. Would like to add that the fans were magnificent yesterday, and the team were also good with the fans. Edited April 21 by 1GregStewart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Gartenmann was excellent yesterday. He kind of epitomises this team: he seems to have his best performances against better teams and in bigger games. When he plays like that, he is the best centre-back at the club by a country mile. I do wonder if he just doesn't like playing against really physical attackers, which is always going to a big problem for him in Scotland if he does sign permanently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 23 minutes ago, DrewDon said: Gartenmann was excellent yesterday. He kind of epitomises this team: he seems to have his best performances against better teams and in bigger games. When he plays like that, he is the best centre-back at the club by a country mile. I do wonder if he just doesn't like playing against really physical attackers, which is always going to a big problem for him in Scotland if he does sign permanently. He definitely doesn’t like the physicality of the week to week stuff. He was great yesterday but my worry is that he’s excellent at the last ditch stuff. He makes good tackles, blocks, puts his body on the line. The stuff that stands out in these games. Problem is I see him making last ditch challenges etc too often against the likes of st Johnstone or hibs at home and you wonder if he’s actually put himself in that position in the first place. His positioning can be pretty kamikaze at times too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: He definitely doesn’t like the physicality of the week to week stuff. He was great yesterday but my worry is that he’s excellent at the last ditch stuff. He makes good tackles, blocks, puts his body on the line. The stuff that stands out in these games. Problem is I see him making last ditch challenges etc too often against the likes of st Johnstone or hibs at home and you wonder if he’s actually put himself in that position in the first place. His positioning can be pretty kamikaze at times too. That is probably fair. If you put him up against a Simon Murray or a Kyle Vassell type of centre-forward, you can tell he just isn't comfortable with the amount of physicality: he ends up either not engaging and taking up a deeper starting position, which in itself is a problem, or engaging, getting turned and beaten too often and then having to make up ground. If you have someone like Rubezic to partner him then you can alleviate that to an extent, but you can't escape it entirely as a centre-back in this league. Whilst I don't mind MacDonald and it was nice to see him get some redemption for his misjudgements at Celtic's first two goals, he doesn't quite offer that some degree of physical coverage, which is presumably why Robson seemed to settle on Rubezic and Gartenmann as his preferred pairing when he did eventually move to a back four. Edited April 21 by DrewDon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 hour ago, DrewDon said: Gartenmann was excellent yesterday. He kind of epitomises this team: he seems to have his best performances against better teams and in bigger games. When he plays like that, he is the best centre-back at the club by a country mile. I do wonder if he just doesn't like playing against really physical attackers, which is always going to a big problem for him in Scotland if he does sign permanently. He was effective. But, yeah, I noticed one ball that came into the crowded box where he let it drop across his body onto his right foot when he could/should have headed/chested/shouldered it far more aggressively but the Celtic player a foot or two away just watched him. Likes of Curtis Main would have run through him and come out with the ball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 2 hours ago, coprolite said: He was effective. But, yeah, I noticed one ball that came into the crowded box where he let it drop across his body onto his right foot when he could/should have headed/chested/shouldered it far more aggressively but the Celtic player a foot or two away just watched him. Likes of Curtis Main would have run through him and come out with the ball. It seems counterintuitive, but the bottom six fixtures - and the type of forwards he will come up against - will almost be a bigger challenge for Gartenmann than yesterday, despite being up against technically much poorer players. It is similar for Polvara in midfield. He did well enough in the first half yesterday, but fell away after half-time and we begun to get dominated. He will likely get another chance next week against Motherwell with Shinnie suspended, so I want to see him stepping up and influencing games against bottom six teams when we are likely to have a majority of the ball. Also to see how well he copes when he comes up against midfielders more likely to make the game a battle and who will relish the physical side of things. Edited April 21 by DrewDon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 8 hours ago, tarapoa said: Sometimes it's maybe better just to take the diehards to these occasions ! This is definitely the case. Our 2012 semi against Celtic was one nobody thought we'd win. We took 12,000, and there were folk trying to give away tickets in the run up etc. A fucking amazing day at the fitba, and I think it was better for just having that smaller support there. Hard to think of a more intense goal celebration than that day. Almost up there with routing the tramps in the final with a full house as an experience. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 7 hours ago, Dons_1988 said: He definitely doesn’t like the physicality of the week to week stuff. He was great yesterday but my worry is that he’s excellent at the last ditch stuff. He makes good tackles, blocks, puts his body on the line. The stuff that stands out in these games. Problem is I see him making last ditch challenges etc too often against the likes of st Johnstone or hibs at home and you wonder if he’s actually put himself in that position in the first place. His positioning can be pretty kamikaze at times too. Russell Anderson eventually carved out a career of being an excellent last ditch blocker and tackler after being caught out positionally. Gartenmann played a fine game yesterday epitomised by that beautiful take down and cross field pass he made to Hoilett for the third goal. I think his biggest problems this season have came when partnering with Jensen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PogoStick Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 5 hours ago, coprolite said: He was effective. But, yeah, I noticed one ball that came into the crowded box where he let it drop across his body onto his right foot when he could/should have headed/chested/shouldered it far more aggressively but the Celtic player a foot or two away just watched him. Likes of Curtis Main would have run through him and come out with the ball. Maybe I’m imagining it and it’s confirmation bias now but feel like both he and Jensen shy away from heading the ball. Our whole defence do at times. Feel like I’m often saying don’t let that bounce. Is it ridiculous to suggest that younger players may be influenced by increasing knowledge of head injuries and resultant diseases? Has defending subconsciously or even consciously changed as a result? Often sit and watch us and think big Gashton would have dealt with that all day long. Still miss the big galoot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarapoa Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 (edited) I really like Gartenmann, comes across as a top bloke on his RedTV interviews. Some excellent points made though, and I think he's maybe just a guy suited for a certain type of style/game that isn't 70% of the matches in our domestic league. Of course, a good manager could maybe work on getting the best out of him more often (the right partner certainly helps) - but I suspect club and player will part company without too much effort being made to do anything more permanent. There have probably been too many occasions he's got it tight from our support (sometimes harsh, sometimes merited), that he probably feels himself he needs to move on elsewhere, if it isn't with his parent club - especially with no European football here next season. Edited April 22 by tarapoa 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 8 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said: Russell Anderson eventually carved out a career of being an excellent last ditch blocker and tackler after being caught out positionally. Gartenmann played a fine game yesterday epitomised by that beautiful take down and cross field pass he made to Hoilett for the third goal. I think his biggest problems this season have came when partnering with Jensen. Anderson could cope much better with the physicality. And I may have red tinted specs on but I don’t remember Anderson putting himself in trouble as much as gartenmann does. Not saying that the last ditch defending is a bad thing, but you have to question if you’re doing it that frequently. I’ve definitely seen him a few times charge out towards balls he doesn’t have a hope of getting then having to make a recovery. These are potentially things to be worked on though, I have no idea what interest there is from any side to make it permanent. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lubo_blaha Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 19 hours ago, PogoStick said: Maybe I’m imagining it and it’s confirmation bias now but feel like both he and Jensen shy away from heading the ball. Our whole defence do at times. Feel like I’m often saying don’t let that bounce. Is it ridiculous to suggest that younger players may be influenced by increasing knowledge of head injuries and resultant diseases? Has defending subconsciously or even consciously changed as a result? Often sit and watch us and think big Gashton would have dealt with that all day long. Still miss the big galoot. That knowledge clearly hasn’t made it to Serbian football academies 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeAFC94 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 The frustrating thing with Gartenmann is how frequently he makes the schoolboy error of letting the ball bounce, it's completely unforgivable at this level. At least once every other game I've seen him let a routine hoof forward bounce before trying to deal with it, and then he inevitably gets bullied by the opposition striker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 16 hours ago, MikeAFC94 said: The frustrating thing with Gartenmann is how frequently he makes the schoolboy error of letting the ball bounce, it's completely unforgivable at this level. At least once every other game I've seen him let a routine hoof forward bounce before trying to deal with it, and then he inevitably gets bullied by the opposition striker. Sokler let one bounce in our box on Saturday. It came to nothing as he pumped it out the park but my heart skipped a beat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodhull Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 Leven being looked at down south. Would be a little surprising. He's steadied the ship a bit but not like it's been an amazing turnaround under him or anything. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, Rodhull said: Leven being looked at down south. Would be a little surprising. He's steadied the ship a bit but not like it's been an amazing turnaround under him or anything. That would be mad. With all respect to him, and I mean it because he’s done well in difficult circumstances, other than Saturday we’ve still largely been garbage. We’ve just steadied things a bit and stopped the bleeding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enrico Pallazzo Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 There's absolutely zero chance of Peter being offered the Barnsley job. Kite-flying nonsense from the Weegie-media. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PogoStick Posted April 23 Share Posted April 23 “Key man” Been at the club less than a year. I’ve praised him, I think he’s handled this last spell well enough, but also said it’s been nothing drastic. Paper talk. Besides anyone whose ever watched our managerial setup kens big Craig Samson has been pulling the strings for the past twa year 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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