Nazi slurs from Better Together

[sons superhero]

Actually, we established

'If you hate gay people, vote with the SNP MSP John Mason '

Is he a Unionist?

I seem to remember him saying he was voting on religious grounds on that subject.

[H_B]

Some here in full denial mode. Aside from Donaldson one only has to look at the musings of the likes of Hugh McDiarmid or Lewis Spence to see that proto-Scottish Nationalism had an unhealthy obsession with ethnicity. But then Labour and the socialist movement have had their own share of ethnic fruitcakes over the years as well.

Thankfully things have moved on - I don't think any such accusation could be thrown at today's modern SNP or Labour Party.

It's the childlike belief of good guys v bad guys. Something most people got past before they became teenagers.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The history behind most modern political parties is riddled with unsavoury characters and views. I know from my research of the socialist movement that the likes of Shaw and the Webbs could be accused of holding racialist views.

What really matters is are those elements still there today? On the whole, bar the odd fruitcake Tory, most modern political parties don't hold truck with racialist opinions.

[Confidemus]

Actually, we established

'If you hate gay people, vote with the SNP MSP John Mason '

Is he a Unionist?

No, YOU established this. We all agreed that John Mason is a cock, but that doesn't detract.

Now, since you're here, can you comment on all the other individuals/ organisations in the article who support No?

If you don't, and I suspect you won't, I'll presume you've shat out it.

[H_B]

I seem to remember him saying he was voting on religious grounds on that subject.

And?

Is it OK to be a homophobe if you are a sky fairyist?

[Confidemus]

It's the childlike belief of good guys v bad guys. Something most people got past before they became teenagers.

:lol:

You've been doing your level best to smear Yes for months. Don't even think about taking the moral highground.

Now, let's see if you respond to this with a whining plea to show specific evidence, whilst simulataneously failing to address any of the points I raised in my previous post.

Go on, H_B, prove me wrong.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

:lol:

You've been doing your level best to smear Yes for months. Don't even think about taking the moral highground.

Now, let's see if you respond to this with a whining plea to show specific evidence, whilst simulataneously failing to address any of the points I raised in my previous post.

Go on, H_B, prove me wrong.

To be fair there are a few "Four legs good, two legs bad" folk on both sides.

[Confidemus]

To be fair there are a few "Four legs good, two legs bad" folk on both sides.

I agree. No one is saying (apart from H_B) this is a good guy v bad guy thing. There is good and bad on both sides.

Where H_B spectacularly fails is in failing to address the shortcomings on his own side, whilst bogging down the debate in utterly pointless semantics.

I've already pointed out that John Mason is a cock.

Where is H_B's admittance and howls of derision regarding George Galloway, the Orange Order, Britannica, SDL, Britain First, etc, etc?

[H_B]

I have made many many posts criticising the Orange Order.

And have been a long standing critic of Galloway.

Difference is, I dint pretend it's the preserve if one side.

Racist groups like Settler Watch, and hideous ethnic Nats like Seed of the Gael for example.

Its why cutting and pasting from agenda blogs like WoS is a bad idea.

Alarmingly the foolish Ayrshire types assume it's the full story.

[Confidemus]

I have made many many posts criticising the Orange Order.

Show me more than two.

And have been a long standing critic of Galloway.

Again, show me more than two.

Difference is, I dint pretend it's the preserve if one side.

Yes you do. You whinge, mewl and adopt your whataboutery stance.

Racist groups like Settler Watch, and hideous ethnic Nats like Seed of the Gael for example.

Whataboutery in full effect.

Its why cutting and pasting from agenda blogs like WoS is a bad idea.

No, it's a good idea. Point out one factually inaccurate piece from the one I posted.

Alarmingly the foolish Ayrshire types assume it's the full story.

Bit racist of you. Not surprising from a No voter.

[ecto]

Any chance of putting this thread "out of its misery", because it has been on "life support" for the last couple of days

[sons superhero]

And?

Is it OK to be a homophobe if you are a sky fairyist?

He holds this belief as a roman catholic not as a member of a political party. I didn't say it was ok, I'll accept your apology.

[MassiveFanDan]

Did you just forget about the SNPs links to Nazism?

H-B, the two proven examples of "the SNP's links to Nazism" that you have posted appear to consist of a group being officially proscribed by the SNP for even approaching fascism in their ideology, and a man (MacDiarmid) who publically criticized Neville Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler in the pre-war years.

Don't get me wrong, MacDiarmid was a total roaster, and his founding of the Clann Albainn does seem to contradict my view that all UK fascist groups have always been unionist in character - in reality, it seems it's just the vast, overwhelming majority of them that are unionist, particularly all the ones that still exist. So I was wrong.

Typical of MacDiarmid to still be buggering up the independence movement even decades after his death. He re-joined the Communist Party in 1956 - immediately after the Soviet re-suppression of Hungary, which showed everybody with eyes what the Soviets were really like. What a throbber.

Siol nan Gaidheal are godawful as well - genuine ethnic nationalists, unlike all the people you have accused of being such on here. But they're not Nazis, or far-right. Even Gordon Wilson (the John Mason of his day, though it was more acceptable then) only went so far as to call them proto-fascist - no one needs to use that prefix when discussing the unionist groups I posted about earlier.

It's the childlike belief of good guys v bad guys. Something most people got past before they became teenagers.

That's hilarious. "Did you just forget about the SNPs links to Nazism?"

[git-intae-thum]

This thread is a total cluster for the unionists.

Agreed that there are small numbers of roasters on both sides, but there is only one camp it would appear who are more than happy to keep pushing the nazi idea using the mainstream media.

Trying to link the Scottish independence movement in any way to fascism or the far right is completely wrong on so many levels. It smacks of desperation.

The thing is when people make these claims it is dangerous. It lowers the debate and poisons the minds of the gullible, fostering enmity.

Shame on them. Total fannies.

[Savage Henry]

This is basic (if underhand) political tactics. That the Yes campaign have risen to it is at once a sign of naivety and actually quite refreshing but still needlessly self-destructive. Lyndon B Johnson once told one of his aids to spread the word that one of his opponents "fucked pigs". When told that there was no way that they could get away with that, Johnson replied "of course it isn't true, but let's make the guy deny it." That's almost certainly apocryphal, but there's a wisdom to it as well.

That's exactly what's going on here. Nobody actually believes any of the Yes campaign are Nazis, yet here they are denying it. Ignore, move on. There's nothing to be seen here - or at least there shouldn't be. What makes it a story are the denials.

[H_B]

, and his founding of the Clann Albainn does seem to contradict my view that all UK fascist groups have always been unionist in character -

Your apology is accepted.

Thank you.

[H_B]

Siol nan Gaidheal are godawful as well - genuine ethnic nationalists, unlike all the people you have accused of being such on here.

Really?

What makes them "genuine" ethnic nationalists in a way that the ethnic nationalists on here are not?

[H_B]

He holds this belief as a roman catholic not as a member of a political party.

lolwut?

He is a bigot. Plain and simple. And is an SNP MSP.

If you vote Yes, you do so alongside homophobic bigots, like Mason, and Bill Walker. How can you do so with any conscience?

When you vote Yes you do so alongside racists like Settler Watch and ethnic Nationalists like Siol Nan Gaidheal - how can you do so with any conscience?

That's the WoS article in its essence. In short - absolute garbage - the usual standard of its output.

[Ad Lib]

You are stating that he IS a nazi sympathiser. But later say it is only in your opinion. Therefore he is not a nazi sympathiser as a matter of fact but only in your opinion.

My opinion is right. If I didn't think that were the case it wouldn't be my opinion.

I seem to remember him saying he was voting on religious grounds on that subject.

So f**k? He voted in his capacity as an SNP MSP. HB's point is that the Unionists generally are no more to blame for bigoted nutters within their tent than Scottish nationalists are for those within theirs.

This thread is a total cluster for the unionists.

Agreed that there are small numbers of roasters on both sides, but there is only one camp it would appear who are more than happy to keep pushing the nazi idea using the mainstream media.

Trying to link the Scottish independence movement in any way to fascism or the far right is completely wrong on so many levels. It smacks of desperation.

The thing is when people make these claims it is dangerous. It lowers the debate and poisons the minds of the gullible, fostering enmity.

Shame on them. Total fannies.

When people attempt to link the Pro-union campaign as pursued by Better Together and the mainstream parties and opponents of independence in Scotland: to Britain First, the BNP, the Orange Order, Britannica, Holocaust denial and the like, simply because these unsavoury groups, whose politics mainstream Unionism routinely condemns, have availed themselves of the opportunity to register themselves independently with the Electoral commission as participants, do you think that is reasonable?

Because I find it every bit as ridiculous as the notion that the mainstream independence movement is typified by Siol Nan Gaidheal are reflective or meaningfully linked to YesScotland.

[sons superhero]

My opinion is right. If I didn't think that were the case it wouldn't be my opinion.

So f**k? He voted in his capacity as an SNP MSP. HB's point is that the Unionists generally are no more to blame for bigoted nutters within their tent than Scottish nationalists are for those within theirs.

When people attempt to link the Pro-union campaign as pursued by Better Together and the mainstream parties and opponents of independence in Scotland: to Britain First, the BNP, the Orange Order, Britannica, Holocaust denial and the like, simply because these unsavoury groups, whose politics mainstream Unionism routinely condemns, have availed themselves of the opportunity to register themselves independently with the Electoral commission as participants, do you think that is reasonable?

Because I find it every bit as ridiculous as the notion that the mainstream independence movement is typified by Siol Nan Gaidheal are reflective or meaningfully linked to YesScotland.

You made a statement of fact, it wasn't. Your opinion is not fact and is worthless live with it.

Mason voted against his party so never voted as a SNP MSP in this matter.