Sportsound Watch

[craigkillie]

The pronunciation is not exactly a million miles away from "Edward" though.

[Nightmare]

"Rojick" annoys me a lot more than "Edward".

Edited October 28, 2018 by Nightmare

[LeeVanTeeth]

2 hours ago, Estragon said:

Do you honestly suppose that there were people at Rangers, as was,  who were tasked with explaining the intricacies of the EBT to players?  Or do you think these guys were just told by their agent what they'd be getting per week?

I would imagine that the payment through a controversial scheme like an EBT would be mentioned to a player. And if the player was Dodds then I assume he favoured this payment despite knowing that it was a tax dodge meaning that he is money orientated.

[7-2]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

The pronunciation is not exactly a million miles away from "Edward" though.

So not Edward then.

[7-2]

36 minutes ago, LeeVanTeeth said:

I would imagine that the payment through a controversial scheme like an EBT would be mentioned to a player. And if the player was Dodds then I assume he favoured this payment despite knowing that it was a tax dodge meaning that he is money orientated.

Aye, right. More like  'You'll be getting £1 million a year Billy. It'll be partly normal payment and partly through some tax thing the Rangers accountants use.'  'Whit number oh shirt have ah goat?'

[pandarilla]

I would imagine that the payment through a controversial scheme like an EBT would be mentioned to a player. And if the player was Dodds then I assume he favoured this payment despite knowing that it was a tax dodge meaning that he is money orientated.

I don't think you can pin that on any of the players.

They've got demands, through their agents, and rangers found a way to meet them.

This was pretty common at the club then so it wouldn't be a weird thing.

[Estragon]

1 hour ago, LeeVanTeeth said:

I would imagine that the payment through a controversial scheme like an EBT would be mentioned to a player. And if the player was Dodds then I assume he favoured this payment despite knowing that it was a tax dodge meaning that he is money orientated.

Well, as much as I've enjoyed booting the shit out of Sevco the last few years, I think this is pretty unrealistic. 

[Boghead ranter]

4 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Why can't Pat Bonner pronounce Edouard's name? He hears everyone else say it correctly yet he still says 'Edward'. Why do none of them pull him up on it or have a wee word with him?

If you pay your TV licence then you're paying this moron's wages.

Just be glad that Isa Goory wasn't playing. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Boghead ranter

[Guest JTS98]

15 hours ago, LeeVanTeeth said:

I would imagine that the payment through a controversial scheme like an EBT would be mentioned to a player. And if the player was Dodds then I assume he favoured this payment despite knowing that it was a tax dodge meaning that he is money orientated.

I find this scenario highly unlikely.

I find it utterly baffling that anyone would pin the blame on the EBT recipients. They were just being paid by their employer. Like most people would, I'd imagine they just thought that if the accountants and lawyers at their employer had signed off on it, it must be legit. I doubt many footballers, or many people in general, are very aware of the intricacies of tax law. I'm certainly not.

These guys have families and responsibilities, but they've been left in a financial hole due to the incompetence of their employer. I don't see that as something to celebrate, especially not over something as trivial as what football team they played for. They are losers here too, because they were let down by people whose jobs it was to know about this stuff.

[Mark Connolly]

10 hours ago, JTS98 said:

I find this scenario highly unlikely.

I find it utterly baffling that anyone would pin the blame on the EBT recipients. They were just being paid by their employer. Like most people would, I'd imagine they just thought that if the accountants and lawyers at their employer had signed off on it, it must be legit. I doubt many footballers, or many people in general, are very aware of the intricacies of tax law. I'm certainly not.

These guys have families and responsibilities, but they've been left in a financial hole due to the incompetence of their employer. I don't see that as something to celebrate, especially not over something as trivial as what football team they played for. They are losers here too, because they were let down by people whose jobs it was to know about this stuff.

I remember Dodds being on Sportsound at the time saying he just signed it because his accountant told him to, and he didn't really understand the money side.

[Dons_1988]

I find this scenario highly unlikely.
I find it utterly baffling that anyone would pin the blame on the EBT recipients. They were just being paid by their employer. Like most people would, I'd imagine they just thought that if the accountants and lawyers at their employer had signed off on it, it must be legit. I doubt many footballers, or many people in general, are very aware of the intricacies of tax law. I'm certainly not.
These guys have families and responsibilities, but they've been left in a financial hole due to the incompetence of their employer. I don't see that as something to celebrate, especially not over something as trivial as what football team they played for. They are losers here too, because they were let down by people whose jobs it was to know about this stuff.

It’s not acceptable to hide behind ‘my accountant said it was fine’.

Ultimately it is your money and your responsibility. If an employer/accountant approaches you and says if you use this scheme instead of a basic salary/bonus you’ll save a massive wedge on tax then I’m sorry but ‘I didn’t know anything about it’ doesn’t really cut it. It’s absolutely incumbent on you to ensure you will be fairly bullet proof of that the advice you are getting is sound.

I don’t have a particular moral issue with tax avoidance but be at least semi sensible about it. HMRC don’t particularly like it and will hammer you if you leave yourself vulnerable to it.

[Guest JTS98]

12 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I remember Dodds being on Sportsound at the time saying he just signed it because his accountant told him to, and he didn't really understand the money side.

And, as I mentioned before, I imagine most people would do the same.

I trust my employer to get this stuff right.

[VictorOnopko]

Here's some of Billy's explanation of what happened and why he accidentally avoided tax (Herald, 8/11/15):

I WAS interested to read the comments made by Lord Drummond Young after last week’s development in the Big Tax Case. He said that “if bonuses had not been paid (the players) might well have taken their services elsewhere.” Well, I can say that definitely wasn’t the case in my situation and a few others who were in the same boat. There was no mention of an EBT or any other payment like that when I signed for Rangers. I had already agreed my deal for a certain amount of money so it played no part in me moving to the club. I never got or was offered an EBT when I signed. I was due money at the club when I left and got it via an EBT then. So the idea that I would have taken my services elsewhere had I not got an EBT when I signed definitely didn’t apply in my case or in the case of several others.

So, that's all right then, as Private Eye would say.  Except, obviously, it isn't - ignorance is no defence (and he also doesn't elaborate on whether he knew what an EBT was when he was paid off with one).

Getting back on topic, what has really annoyed me in the past couple of weeks is that over and over again we've been subjected to pundits on Sportsound, paid from the licence fee to give their views on Scottish football, spending a lot of time lobbying for their pal (who is also on the programme, getting licence fee money) to get an assistant's job.  "Biscuits" has been the worst offender, and has been an absolute moron on the topic (as he is on every other topic).

I don't care who the assistant manager of Dundee is, but in this case, having listened to him and his pals' pleading and exaggeration of his talents, I'm very glad they didn't appoint Billy Dodds. 

 

[Dee Man]

6 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

Here's some of Billy's explanation of what happened and why he accidentally avoided tax (Herald, 8/11/15):

I WAS interested to read the comments made by Lord Drummond Young after last week’s development in the Big Tax Case. He said that “if bonuses had not been paid (the players) might well have taken their services elsewhere.” Well, I can say that definitely wasn’t the case in my situation and a few others who were in the same boat. There was no mention of an EBT or any other payment like that when I signed for Rangers. I had already agreed my deal for a certain amount of money so it played no part in me moving to the club. I never got or was offered an EBT when I signed. I was due money at the club when I left and got it via an EBT then. So the idea that I would have taken my services elsewhere had I not got an EBT when I signed definitely didn’t apply in my case or in the case of several others.

So, that's all right then, as Private Eye would say.  Except, obviously, it isn't - ignorance is no defence (and he also doesn't elaborate on whether he knew what an EBT was when he was paid off with one).

Getting back on topic, what has really annoyed me in the past couple of weeks is that over and over again we've been subjected to pundits on Sportsound, paid from the licence fee to give their views on Scottish football, spending a lot of time lobbying for their pal (who is also on the programme, getting licence fee money) to get an assistant's job.  "Biscuits" has been the worst offender, and has been an absolute moron on the topic (as he is on every other topic).

I don't care who the assistant manager of Dundee is, but in this case, having listened to him and his pals' pleading and exaggeration of his talents, I'm very glad they didn't appoint Billy Dodds. 

 

So am I, Victor, so am I. 

[killiemilan]

 

2 hours ago, JTS98 said:

And, as I mentioned before, I imagine most people would do the same.

I trust my employer to get this stuff right.

I think in the case of basic rate tax that is the case.However if you are a higher rate tax payer then one would expect that the agent or accountant you employ will make these decisions on their clients behalf. In this case it would appear they have gotten it wrong. Sadly if something seems to good to be true in life then it often is. 

It is also very naive of Dodds to say that all of these players would have been at Rangers even without the EBT's. We all know that for the past 30 years or so footballers have been money chasing individuals. 

Ultimately your tax is your own responsibility so it will be interesting to see where this ends up.  

[pandarilla]

It’s not acceptable to hide behind ‘my accountant said it was fine’.

Ultimately it is your money and your responsibility. If an employer/accountant approaches you and says if you use this scheme instead of a basic salary/bonus you’ll save a massive wedge on tax then I’m sorry but ‘I didn’t know anything about it’ doesn’t really cut it. It’s absolutely incumbent on you to ensure you will be fairly bullet proof of that the advice you are getting is sound.

I don’t have a particular moral issue with tax avoidance but be at least semi sensible about it. HMRC don’t particularly like it and will hammer you if you leave yourself vulnerable to it.

I'd agree when we're taking about self employed folk like the Jimmy Carr situation - but when there's an employer involved I think that's different.

[Stu]

48 minutes ago, VictorOnopko said:

Here's some of Billy's explanation of what happened and why he accidentally avoided tax (Herald, 8/11/15):

I WAS interested to read the comments made by Lord Drummond Young after last week’s development in the Big Tax Case. He said that “if bonuses had not been paid (the players) might well have taken their services elsewhere.” Well, I can say that definitely wasn’t the case in my situation and a few others who were in the same boat. There was no mention of an EBT or any other payment like that when I signed for Rangers. I had already agreed my deal for a certain amount of money so it played no part in me moving to the club. I never got or was offered an EBT when I signed. I was due money at the club when I left and got it via an EBT then. So the idea that I would have taken my services elsewhere had I not got an EBT when I signed definitely didn’t apply in my case or in the case of several others.

So, that's all right then, as Private Eye would say.  Except, obviously, it isn't - ignorance is no defence (and he also doesn't elaborate on whether he knew what an EBT was when he was paid off with one).

Getting back on topic, what has really annoyed me in the past couple of weeks is that over and over again we've been subjected to pundits on Sportsound, paid from the licence fee to give their views on Scottish football, spending a lot of time lobbying for their pal (who is also on the programme, getting licence fee money) to get an assistant's job.  "Biscuits" has been the worst offender, and has been an absolute moron on the topic (as he is on every other topic).

I don't care who the assistant manager of Dundee is, but in this case, having listened to him and his pals' pleading and exaggeration of his talents, I'm very glad they didn't appoint Billy Dodds. 

 

As an aside, I seem to remember Dodds saying outright on Sportsound he didn't have an EBT. A short while later, Mark Daly did the second of his Rangers' documentaries which had a list of everyone who had an EBT - including Dodds. They even played the clip of him denying it. When this was then brought up in the following days on Sportsound he came out with some bullshit excuse that it would be easier if he said he didn't have one.

Good that the BBC still pays a wage to someone like that - and someone who declined to be interviewed for a BBC documentary along with the rest of the EBT recipients.

[Ludo*1]

Footballers are thick as mince at the best of times, never mind Billy Dodds.

I've made it clear I'm no fan of Dodds but if I had an accountant that dealt with my finances and my employer offered a deal that'd see me a bit better off and the accountant said it's the best deal, I'd agree too without any idea or thought about the illegality of it.

[kennysmassiveego]

My limited understanding of how EBT’ s are beneficial to the recipient means that the recipient gets deferred payments sometime down the road from the trust . These “ payments “ make up the majority of the “wage “ so I refuse to believe anyone who benefited from these didn’t know about it .

Agent to player “ I’ve got you £500k a year son “ 

Player  “ that’s great , how much will I get  a week in my pay packet ?” 

Agent  “ £1000 “ 

Billy “ OK that sounds good to me “ 

[Dee Man]

6 hours ago, kennysmassiveego said:

My limited understanding of how EBT’ s are beneficial to the recipient means that the recipient gets deferred payments sometime down the road from the trust . These “ payments “ make up the majority of the “wage “ so I refuse to believe anyone who benefited from these didn’t know about it .

Agent to player “ I’ve got you £500k a year son “ 

Player  “ that’s great , how much will I get  a week in my pay packet ?” 

Agent  “ £1000 “ 

Billy “ OK that sounds good to me “ 

I'm not sure even the thickest of players would go for that.