All things Dundee FC

[Ludo*1]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Kerr, Duffy and this Dutch lump.

I'm aware all three will now have stormers next week btw

Cammy Kerr is rash but has generally been very decent at RB. Michael Duffy has played about twice for us so to write him off is bizarre, but you may well be right. Yordi has been a complete marmite player for us. Our fans either tend to think he's awful or our best player in games. He's absolutely dominant in the air, but possesses little in the way of link-up play other than that. Harsh to write him off already tbf.

1 hour ago, Milnzo said:

I see that Ewen Murray was having a go at McGowan after the game yesterday. Seems to be questioning Hartley's judgement and/or Dundee's class.

Who?

[RandomGuy.]

56 minutes ago, CityDave said:

Dundee only 3 points off 6th and fans pressing the panic button after looking at the table.....behave.

Probably the fact they've only won three times in their last seventeen league games

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Ludo*1 said:

Cammy Kerr is rash but has generally been very decent at RB. Michael Duffy has played about twice for us so to write him off is bizarre, but you may well be right. Yordi has been a complete marmite player for us. Our fans either tend to think he's awful or our best player in games. He's absolutely dominant in the air, but possesses little in the way of link-up play other than that. Harsh to write him off already tbf.

Kerr won't be good enough, its similar to Kane with us, in that they get more leeway simply because they came through the youth ranks and they're young. While I seen Duffy for Alloa last season, he looked decent but no better than the likes of Bobby Barr. You can already tell what this Yordi will end up like.

[Ludo*1]

Just went searching for that Ewan Murray on Twitter. The Guardian's Golf correspondent . He's raging that we handed the armband to Paul McGowan because he's a 'criminal'.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Ludo*1

[CityDave]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Probably the fact they've only won three times in their last seventeen league games

So this is about anticipating what might happen? What is happening now is this season.....9 games gone, results have been poor but yet Dundee are still only 3 points of 6th. Just saying that seven other teams are in the same boat, Dundee are no different. I would say County are in a worse state right now.

Edited October 16, 2016 by CityDave

[RandomGuy.]

4 minutes ago, TrevorMcD said:

It's good to see RandomGuy has snapped out of his "it's not fair, what's the point? No wonder fans are leaving Scottish football" crybaby fit yesterday. 

I still maintain the fact you can pay £23 to watch your team gets legitimate goals ruled out by a ref whose dad was inducted into your opponents hall of fame days before the game, is a load of fucking shite, and the fact it can happen sums up the ineptitude thats rife in Scottish football.

[srw]

14 hours ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

 

11 hours ago, johnnydun said:

Oh here he goes, the merchant of doom! 

And tell me o wise one, what good will it do replacing the manager now and what saviour would you replace him with? 

Aye things are shite just now but it can be turned around quickly. Its shite for 6 other teams too, we are only 3 points from 6th. Hartley still has my backing, I have more confidence in him than I would have in any of the other 6 managers within the 3 points of us.

 

9 hours ago, Dee Man said:

 

Sorry chaps, I didnt see any positives months ago, since then we have went 8 games without winning, so theres definitely no positives now. If anyone can offer some, please feel free, otherwise Im getting ready for Cappielow, Somerset Park and Tannadice next season.

[johnnydun]

11 minutes ago, srw said:

 

 

Sorry chaps, I didnt see any positives months ago, since then we have went 8 games without winning, so theres definitely no positives now. If anyone can offer some, please feel free, otherwise Im getting ready for Cappielow, Somerset Park and Tannadice next season.

Can you answer my question then?

[srw]

3 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Can you answer my question then?

Certainly. It may not be the answer youre looking for, because it will be blunt and factual, not based on feelings.

And tell me o wise one, what good will it do replacing the manager now? - It could give us a boost, the players may be revitalised, we might improve with players playing in their correct positions, or changing tactics to suit them. We need to stop trying to squeeze players into positions, Hartley has done this for years, it doesnt work IMO. We are sinking, thats a blunt fact, Hartley hasnt steadied the ship in months, I believe someone else could do better.

What saviour would you replace him with? - One never knows who would be interested, so I cant answer that. As a manager, isHartley the absolute best that we could get, I dont believe so. Lets get someone else before we are officially relegated.

[johnnydun]

14 minutes ago, srw said:

Certainly. It may not be the answer youre looking for, because it will be blunt and factual, not based on feelings.

And tell me o wise one, what good will it do replacing the manager now? - It could give us a boost, the players may be revitalised, we might improve with players playing in their correct positions, or changing tactics to suit them. We need to stop trying to squeeze players into positions, Hartley has done this for years, it doesnt work IMO. We are sinking, thats a blunt fact, Hartley hasnt steadied the ship in months, I believe someone else could do better.

What saviour would you replace him with? - One never knows who would be interested, so I cant answer that. As a manager, isHartley the absolute best that we could get, I dont believe so. Lets get someone else before we are officially relegated.

So what your saying is we might improve with a new manager and you would like to get anyone else thats interested in, as long as he is better than Hartley.

Im sold 

[srw]

I even highlighted key words. Theres no guarantee things will improve under a new manager, but Id take the chance.

Hartley has been poor throughout 2016, not only this season. How long should he be given?

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

4 minutes ago, srw said:

I even highlighted key words. Theres no guarantee things will improve under a new manager, but Id take the chance.

Hartley has been poor throughout 2016, not only this season. How long should he be given?

[johnnydun]

2 minutes ago, srw said:

I even highlighted key words. Theres no guarantee things will improve under a new manager, but Id take the chance.

Hartley has been poor throughout 2016, not only this season. How long should he be given?

At least the rest of this season.

I think your argument to replace Hartley is pish and I am not convinced.

[K.T]

I feel sorry for Yordi in a way. I seem to recall when he was signed Hartley said he wouldn't feature much this season and he wanted to add him in gradually. Then we sell players and he's thrown in the deep end. Dundee fans being quick to criticise, it didn't take long for us to be all "a striker who's no scoring? Get him tae f**k".

Personally I think there's too much pressure on our strikers because there's no goals from our midfield. Even last season, who scored the most from midfield? Would I be correct in thinking it was Harkins with 3 or 4? We also don't seem to have played the same CH's this season for more than 1 game through injuries and suspensions. Luck has maybe gone against us again with those two wonder goals from Hamilton and Killie and hitting the post and bar 4 times yesterday.

f**k it. I'm not panicking yet.

[LiamDFC]

19 minutes ago, srw said:

I even highlighted key words. Theres no guarantee things will improve under a new manager, but Id take the chance.

Hartley has been poor throughout 2016, not only this season. How long should he be given?

Take a moment and think about this.

You're right; we've had an absolutely terrible start to the season. Personally, I find Hartley to be arrogant and utterly unwilling to admit when he's got things wrong. His post-match interviews make so angry that I question what game he's been watching... however, he's the best we've had in a long, long time. We're not going to get a better manager than Hartley, and I think you're being pretty short-term with the old 'sack and replace' rat-race that has poisoned football for decades now. I'd rather fix the problems with Paul Hartley, than go back to square one in the blind hope that we'll stumble on some temporary success. The whole point in this John Nelms experiment was to build and develop the club over time.

Do you remember the circumstances in which Bomber was brought to the club? I feel like we could be back to that type of miserable scenario, should Hartley get the punt. The clubs infrastructure is night and day compared to then and we have more to build on. The solution, in my humble opinion, is this: the board must step up and put a rocket up Hartleys arse, tell him to lose the attitude and concentrate on bringing a few loan signings to bring us to safety. The squad is no where near strong enough to compete week-in, week out and that's where we need to focus our efforts.

It pains me to say it, but our season isn't going to climax with a top 6 finish or cup win — the goal is to avoid relegation. Hartley can still achieve this.

Edit: typo

Edited October 16, 2016 by LiamDFC

[srw]

12 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

At least the rest of this season.

I think your argument to replace Hartley is pish and I am not convinced.

Fair enough.

After a look at Sky Sports website, I make it 6 wins out of the 18 league games played from January to May, this season is 1 win out of 9 games. So 7 wins out of 27  league games this year. Things are statistically getting worse for us.

Based on that, I really fear for us this season.

[srw]

12 minutes ago, LiamDFC said:

Take a moment and think about this.

You're right; we've had an absolutely terrible start to the season. Personally, I find Hartley to be arrogant and utterly unwilling to admit when he's got things wrong. His post-match interviews make so angry that I question what game he's been watching... however, he's the best we've had in a long, long time. We're not going to get a better manager than Hartley, and I think you're being pretty short-term with the old 'sack and replace' rat-race that has poisoned football for decades now. I'd rather fix the problems with Paul Hartley, than go back to square one in the blind hope that we'll stumble on some temporary success. The whole point in this John Nelms experiment was to build and develop the club over time.

Do you remember the circumstances in which Bomber was brought to the club? I feel like we could be back to that type of miserable scenario, should Hartley get the punt. The clubs infrastructure is night and day compared to then and we have more to build on. The solution, in my humble opinion, is this: the board must step up and put a rocket up Hartleys arse, tell him to lose the attitude and concentrate on bringing a few loan signings to bring us to safety. The squad is no where near strong enough to compete week-in, week out and that's where we need to focus our efforts.

It pains me to say it, but our season isn't going to climax with a top 6 finish or cup win — the goal is to avoid relegation. Hartley can still achieve this.

Edit: typo

Theres a lot of sense in that. I agree about his arrogance, thats a key factor in me wanting him out, always has been. He is a poor mans Gordon Strachan, nothing has been more evident this week.

However, I do think we could get better, and I really dont believe someone like Hartley is capable of change, I dont think his flaws can be fixed. The squad is now his own, we have too many iffy defenders, far too many central midfelders, awful wide options, and strikers who cant score. Only Hartley can be help accountable for the squad this season.

I agree this season is about avoiding relegation, and I dont believe Hartley can achieve that.

[dd23]

Probably not qualified to put my tuppence in as I did not attend on Saturday, but it's fair to say that one of my main bugbears was the manager's stubborn persistence with a system that was failing, and give him his due he seems to have adapted to suit the players at his disposal better and by all accounts the second half of Saturday showed a real improvement. I reckon we need to let him see how this adaptation works against more than Celtic at home and Hearts away to see how it pans out. If we're midway through the second round of fixtures and results haven't improved then the perhaps consider where we are.

[bobbycoxblue]

In Hartley I trust..

[johnnydun]

45 minutes ago, LiamDFC said:

Take a moment and think about this.

You're right; we've had an absolutely terrible start to the season. Personally, I find Hartley to be arrogant and utterly unwilling to admit when he's got things wrong. His post-match interviews make so angry that I question what game he's been watching... however, he's the best we've had in a long, long time. We're not going to get a better manager than Hartley, and I think you're being pretty short-term with the old 'sack and replace' rat-race that has poisoned football for decades now. I'd rather fix the problems with Paul Hartley, than go back to square one in the blind hope that we'll stumble on some temporary success. The whole point in this John Nelms experiment was to build and develop the club over time.

Do you remember the circumstances in which Bomber was brought to the club? I feel like we could be back to that type of miserable scenario, should Hartley get the punt. The clubs infrastructure is night and day compared to then and we have more to build on. The solution, in my humble opinion, is this: the board must step up and put a rocket up Hartleys arse, tell him to lose the attitude and concentrate on bringing a few loan signings to bring us to safety. The squad is no where near strong enough to compete week-in, week out and that's where we need to focus our efforts.

It pains me to say it, but our season isn't going to climax with a top 6 finish or cup win — the goal is to avoid relegation. Hartley can still achieve this.

Edit: typo

Out of greenies, but absolutely spot on!