FuzzyAffro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 So you would rather start Scotland off undemocratiically with possible widespread violence. Probably would have huge economic consequences and get a lot of international heat. You would describe this as a bit messy? Its not undemocratic, it can only happen if a party that expressly exists to achieve independence has a majority at HR and, to a lesser extent, WM within Scotland. Hardly undemocratic. The rest is subjective statements of your opinion, not facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 UDI 8 months after a referendum said no, and SNP giving it no mention in their manifesto and assuring the voters that this election is not about independence. Aye, that'll work. We might just get recognised by North Korea though I suppose. As ever, you make things up then respond to that. I said the SNP would never do it, so your fantasy scenario that you want to get all fretted over is of no relevance at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You're a bitter republican, a whinging National Socialist, parochial and narrow minded, the very worst face of what Scotland has to offer. Go on, your turn now ya wee fud !! You make it sound as if supporting the idea of becoming a republic a bit thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Gorilla Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 What are you lines today? Do they email you them straight from the branch office or do you do it over the phone? It's all my own work Afro I'm glad you think I have a branch office to help me. You need to step away from the keyboard or you'll be watching the election unfold from the nearest psychiatric ward. The utter drivel you spout is beyond parody. And you continue to want us to believe you have a degree in politics? What a zoomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 As ever, you make things up then respond to that. I said the SNP would never do it, so your fantasy scenario that you want to get all fretted over is of no relevance at all. You said you thought it was what should be done. If the SNP don't do then who would? You were speculating that it would be democratic because of the number of people who voted SNP in the two elections. Given the SNP have stated something would have to change and that this election is not about independence then it would not be democratic.Also, given that you can't convince pro independence people that this is a good idea, how do you think the 55% who voted no would react? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Interesting article in The Vice. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/queen-palace-coup-miliband-snp-cameron-huitson-345?utm_source=vicefbuk Aparently the Tories have sounded out the monarch about intervening to stop a Labour/SNP pact getting in power. If true, genuinely shocking. An attempt to subvert the democratic process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Reckon Hibs should declare ourselves Scottish Cup winners in May as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 UDI 8 months after a referendum said no, and SNP giving it no mention in their manifesto and assuring the voters that this election is not about independence. Aye, that'll work. We might just get recognised by North Korea though I suppose. Aye, ticks all the boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You're a bitter republican, a whinging National Socialist, parochial and narrow minded, the very worst face of what Scotland has to offer. Go on, your turn now ya wee fud !! Before the vote the snp had about 20/25 ,000 members so Why have 90,000 people just decided they now like the snp maybe they just realized they like their polices or perhaps its that they want independance only think its clear what the winner will be ^ ^ ^ R A T T L E D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Legally it does, with a majority at HR and WM within Scotland that becomes a viable option. I didn't say it wasn't filled with problems it obviously is but its a real, genuine option. Not something the SNP would do but nevertheless it will become an option open to them on May the 8th. We face a hell of a lot of problems and a lot of mess for a long, long time anyway. I think UDI doesn't present any more than any other path we might go down, and gives us what we ultimately want. Morally you would have a strong case, but legally not. Its entirely legal for the SNP to do that should they choose to, but they wouldn't. Based on what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bojangles Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Before the vote the snp had about 20/25 ,000 members so Why have 90,000 people just decided they now like the snp maybe they just realized they like their polices or perhaps its that they want independance only think its clear what the winner will be Is it not a bit early to be hitting the hard stuff? The only way a UDI would ever happen would be if a majority of independence supporting MPs or MSPs were elected with a manifesto pledge to call for another referendum. If that was refused by Westminster parties, that would be grounds for a UDI. Until that happens, nobody would even conceive of going for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 ^ ^ ^ R A T T L E D About what ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You said you thought it was what should be done. If the SNP don't do then who would? You were speculating that it would be democratic because of the number of people who voted SNP in the two elections. Given the SNP have stated something would have to change and that this election is not about independence then it would not be democratic. Also, given that you can't convince pro independence people that this is a good idea, how do you think the 55% who voted no would react? You make some good points and I accepted as soon as I brought it up it was something that will never happen. I am speaking purely hypothetically. However, look at the post below yours, the Tories consulting the monarch about her intervening to prevent a Labour/SNP government, and ally that to the ex-ambassador on here a week ago saying the UK government will be using MI5 right now to thwart independence and the SNP. That's how serious this all is, that's how high the stakes now are. In that context UDI doesn't seem nearly so out there. I ask all yes voters on here if independence was to never happen and this was the only way of achieving it (bearing in mind the leaders of both Labour and the Tories have now said they would block another referendum under any circumstances) would you be okay with it? I certainly would Reckon Hibs should declare ourselves Scottish Cup winners in May as well. Yeah except Hibs can't do that champ, slight difference. Theoretically the Scottish govt can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Is it not a bit early to be hitting the hard stuff? The only way a UDI would ever happen would be if a majority of independence supporting MPs or MSPs were elected with a manifesto pledge to call for another referendum. If that was refused by Westminster parties, that would be grounds for a UDI. Until that happens, nobody would even conceive of going for it. We're basically in that positon. Both the prospective PM's have said they would not agree to another referendum under any circumstances. That's despite Scotland currently having a majority SNP govt and about to return another one next year, and about to have a majority at WM of SNP MP's too. And all polls since indyref showing a majority want another referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bojangles Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We would need to wait for them to actually refuse it though. And this manifesto doesn't mention holding a referendum (as far as I'm aware). Right now I reckon the plan is win as many seats as possible to make everyone associate the party of Scotland with the SNP. That way we can go from a position of even greater strength next time around and have a better chance of being able to get across the 50% of seats mark needed to demand another referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 You make some good points and I accepted as soon as I brought it up it was something that will never happen. I am speaking purely hypothetically. However, look at the post below yours, the Tories consulting the monarch about her intervening to prevent a Labour/SNP government, and ally that to the ex-ambassador on here a week ago saying the UK government will be using MI5 right now to thwart independence and the SNP. That's how serious this all is, that's how high the stakes now are. In that context UDI doesn't seem nearly so out there. I ask all yes voters on here if independence was to never happen and this was the only way of achieving it (bearing in mind the leaders of both Labour and the Tories have now said they would block another referendum under any circumstances) would you be okay with it? I certainly would I suspect if the Tories overruled the will of the people aided by the Queen then the numbers supporting independence would increase. Also I don't think Cameron would have the balls to block a referendum if the Scottish people voted for it and I don't think he'd get away with it if he did. There's also a good chance that he will have no say whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We would need to wait for them to actually refuse it though. And this manifesto doesn't mention holding a referendum (as far as I'm aware). Right now I reckon the plan is win as many seats as possible to make everyone associate the party of Scotland with the SNP. That way we can go from a position of even greater strength next time around and have a better chance of being able to get across the 50% of seats mark needed to demand another referendum. They have ruled it out for future under any circumstances at any time. The current PM of the UK says it is now a 'lifetime' not just a generation. We really are basically already at that point. I suspect if the Tories overruled the will of the people aided by the Queen then the numbers supporting independence would increase. Also I don't think Cameron would have the balls to block a referendum if the Scottish people voted for it and I don't think he'd get away with it if he did. There's also a good chance that he will have no say whatsoever. This is true but misses the point, as long as we are in the UK it doesn't really matter if the numbers supporting independence increases if they UK would refuse to sanction another vote, and the powers that be in the UK have said that they would. Under all circumstances at all times. You say he wouldn't get away with it if he blocked another referendum, I ask you why not? What democratic accountability do we have in Scotland over a Tory PM? None whatsoever, we couldn't do anything about that except not vote Tory and we don't vote Tory anyway so they don't need our votes. Why would he have no say? A precedent has been set with the majority at HR for the SNP meaning referendum but that doesn't mean the UK establishment would abide by that if they thought they might lose the next one. You see what I mean its already very messy and we are already at an advanced stage of all this. Make no mistake these people are utterly desperate to prevent independence ever happening at any cost at any time ever. And they are very powerful, in the UK they are all powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AberdeenBud Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We're basically in that positon. Eh, no we're not. You just haven't come to terms with the referendum result yet. Hopefully you do soon though as I believe people like you actually frighten No voters from "crossing over". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Och aye the noo Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We're basically in that positon. Both the prospective PM's have said they would not agree to another referendum under any circumstances. That's despite Scotland currently having a majority SNP govt and about to return another one next year, and about to have a majority at WM of SNP MP's too. And all polls since indyref showing a majority want another referendum. Feck what politicians want. It's what people want that matters. Tartan tatties are shit stirrers who would gladly spill blood. Fuzzy dahling you're sooo money supermarket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I meant he might not have a say as he may not be PM I think it would be difficult for him to get away with it as it would look stunningly awful internationally for him to defy a democratic decision while at the same time bigging up democracy in other parts of the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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