Any lunatics still thinking Messi is the best?

[vikingTON]

40 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That's pish tbf.  There are no indications he has ever picked the manager, and it seems he didn't want Setien right from the start so there goes that theory.

Seems based on what exactly? The hindsight hot takes after an eight goal demolition by Bayern Munich the other night? When Setien was appointed the narrative was in fact that Messi was delighted to have someone who would play the right way again after the latest hopeless dud Valverde had been emptied. It's no surprise that Messi and the other senior players have been willing to chuck yet another manager under a bus though given how many of them have been elevated and then punted in recent years to the delight of the dressing room.  

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Neymar is one of the best players in the world, anyone would want him to sign for his team.

Is it Lionel Messi's job to determine Barcelona's signing policy? When exactly was he appointed first team coach or sporting director?

Barcelona have spent hundreds of millions of pounds in transfer fees alone on their current set of transfer options, as well as contract renewals for Messi and his other big mate Suarez. The job of Messi then is sit down, shut up and stop whining about Neymar as he did all last summer and focus on doing his job, rather than flopping spectacularly as he did the other night. 

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The current president is an idiot and has run Barca into the ground, again anyone with a brain who cares for the club would want him gone.

Is Messi standing for president as well now? As a club employee, his role is in fact to sit down and shut up until that process is completed as well. 

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Messi has not publicly come out in support of anyone, so he isn't trying to choose the president either.

His on-off contract renewal saga has been deliberately designed to influence the presidential election champ. He is absolutely is trying to choose the president of the football club that he plays for. It's a banana republic in all but name right now. 

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You literally just made all that up. He has been extremely quiet on all these things his entire career actually, which is why its noteworthy he's come out and said some stuff recently. You're full of shit.

Oh he's been extremely quiet in talking to the press about it before; his actual behaviour on the other hand however has in fact been consistent with someone meddling in the club's hierarchy. Having made a monumental arse of this, he has turned to the bully pulpit of the press more and more frequently to try and turn things round. If any other high profile footballer was doing this then they'd be getting absolutely slaughtered for their arrogance and it is no coincidence that both his club and international teams are in such a state of constant internal disarray. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

26 minutes ago, virginton said:

Seems based on what exactly? The hindsight hot takes after an eight goal demolition by Bayern Munich the other night? When Setien was appointed the narrative was in fact that Messi was delighted to have someone who would play the right way again after the latest hopeless dud Valverde had been emptied. It's no surprise that Messi and the other senior players have been willing to chuck yet another manager under a bus though given how many of them have been elevated and then punted in recent years to the delight of the dressing room.  

Is it Lionel Messi's job to determine Barcelona's signing policy? When exactly was he appointed first team coach or sporting director?

Barcelona have spent hundreds of millions of pounds in transfer fees alone on their current set of transfer options, as well as contract renewals for Messi and his other big mate Suarez. The job of Messi then is sit down, shut up and stop whining about Neymar as he did all last summer and focus on doing his job, rather than flopping spectacularly as he did the other night. 

Is Messi standing for president as well now? As a club employee, his role is in fact to sit down and shut up until that process is completed as well. 

His on-off contract renewal saga has been deliberately designed to influence the presidential election champ. He is absolutely is trying to choose the president of the football club that he plays for. It's a banana republic in all but name right now. 

Oh he's been extremely quiet in talking to the press about it before; his actual behaviour on the other hand however has in fact been consistent with someone meddling in the club's hierarchy. Having made a monumental arse of this, he has turned to the bully pulpit of the press more and more frequently to try and turn things round. If any other high profile footballer was doing this then they'd be getting absolutely slaughtered for their arrogance and it is no coincidence that both his club and international teams are in such a state of constant internal disarray. 

Actually seems based on the public fall out they had in July. It was quite big news to people who actually follow Barcelona, you obviously missed it. And I believe July was before they played Bayern, it was after a game against Villareal actually, so there goes that nonsense.  Your reading of the narrative is incorrect as Messi made no public comments to that effect whatsoever. Again, you are in no position to comment on the willingness of the squad to do anything or their reaction to any event as, I'm fairly confident in saying, you don't play for Barcelona. You read pish in the press, or don't as is the case here and just make stuff up, then we get drivel like this.

Messi doesn't determine signing policy. Barcelona tried to sign Neymar, Messi expressed support for this, as anybody would when their team tried to sign one of the world's best players.

What authority do you have to comment on what Messi's job is?  Have you read his contract? Have you ever managed the best on the planet in any particular field?  How would you know what his job is? He's the captain, his job definitely isn't to shut up, he has a responsibility to speak out on behalf of his teammates when appropriate. 

Messi has made no public statements whatsoever on the presidency one way or the other. None. You are making up nonsense. 

There is no saga, its not on-off, and even if there was you are in no position to comment on the motivations behind it, unless you are his agent. Are you his agent?  Again, you just made that up.

You can give no examples of this behaviour as there has been none. He has made a couple of public comments recently as part of his role of club captain. That's it, again, you made it all up. Barcelona are the most political club in football, they are always in a state of disarray that's the nature of it when you have 150 thousand members, they were like that long before Messi and they'll be like that long after, same with Argentina, they've always been a bastion of stability eh, until this quiet little reserved dude came along and ruined it all.

You're an idiot, you made all this up and now you're doubling down on it. Take a day off.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

40 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

Messi rumoured to have asked to leave.
 

Again, that's pish. There were forty different conflicting rumours last night, then his management company came out and said they were all pish. Until you hear something from them or the club its nonsense. There's no chance Messi will leave, he has never said he will, always says he wants to stay, and has been true to his word about everything his whole career.

I actually think if someone was to give them 100m and to get his wages off the books maybe they should do it and start to rebuild, but no danger he goes. At the very least he'll see out his contract.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 hour ago, Michael W said:

Would it really be the worst thing for Barcelona to lose him now? They have the largest wage bill in Europe and I can't see how they rebuild without offloading at least a couple of the higher earners being punted. The trouble is that the wages they are on deters potential suitors, even if covid hadn't put a dent in the largesse of clubs around the world. The China option has also had its wheels removed by a regulation limiting big money foreign signings. 

They have made an absolute cock and balls of the Neymar money; a transfer that in itself was an abject humiliation for the club. €225m on Dembele and Coutinho, both of whom have proven to be duds. The latter is probably the only Barca player who left that last game with any credit, but offloading him is going to be a huge hit to the club in financial terms - who is going to pay the fee Barca will want, let alone his wage demands? 

They are also losing the age game pretty badly. Messi, Pique, Vidal and Suarez are all 33, Rakitic and Busquets are 32 and even Griezmann is 29. There is a real lack of marketable value in what they have to sell and are the fans going to be happy with Suarez (for example) going for £20m to free up some wages? Doubtful. 

The management of the club has been a disgrace over the last few years, presumably on account of player power. 

Excellent post until the end, its not player power its just idiots. They didn't tell them to go and spend loads of money on shite, Bartomeu and Abidal did that.  The only fault of the players is some of them are on enormous money and not worth it anymore, but that's not their fault either the club gave them these contracts.

There has been no long-term strategy, they knew they were going to lose Xavi then Iniesta, they knew when, they didn't have a succession plan in place. They knew Busquets, Suarez, Pique etc too, they could have done it in phases one last year one this year one next year. Didn't do any of that.

They have been appointing managers with wildly different styles and philosophies giving no continuity, neglected La Masia, let loads of great players leave (Alcantara the other night would have vastly improved them) and just been an utter shambles for years. The club has been going this way since Pep's last year, that's why he left.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Another example of this right now, Koeman just been confirmed as manager. He's not the guy like, and will only be there a wee while most likely then the new president will fire him and bring in Xavi most likely.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

And you can guarantee Messi never chose him.

[vikingTON]

Five straight posts of frothing at the mouth nonsense from our itinerant, permaraging fantasist visitor - it's clear to see who needs to 'take a day off' then. 

 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Five straight posts of frothing at the mouth nonsense from our itinerant, permaraging fantasist visitor - it's clear to see who needs to 'take a day off' then. 

 

Stop talking

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

And you can guarantee Messi never chose him.

Has he asked for you as Director of Football, you could keep Koeman right.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Has he asked for you as Director of Football, you could keep Koeman right.

Sadly not, presumably because of the language barrier.

[Derry Alli]

On 15/08/2020 at 10:10, Mr. Alli said:

Nobody even notices when Ronaldo has a poor game now, he's that insignificant at the top level of football. 

... And within a week of this post, Juventus make him available for transfer. 

[Gaz]

I've never understood the argument that Ronaldo is better because Portgual won the Euros.

[vikingTON]

On 18/08/2020 at 10:32, Gaz said:

I've never understood the argument that Ronaldo is better because Portgual won the Euros.

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't carried Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by vikingTON

[Wee-Bey]

I think Koeman and Messi have quite a good understanding, having worked together years ago.

I'll be backing the big Dutchman to get the best out of the little Argentinean as he proves himself the GOAT once more.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Nah that's pish, he took Argentina to three finals, that's at least the equal achievement to Ronaldo who can hardly claim the fact Portugal won one of them makes his a bigger acheivement given he wasn't even on the park at the time. Messi took Argentina to a WC final, has Ronaldo managed that?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Oh I just noticed its you making stuff up again.  Carry on.

[vikingTON]

Oooft, turns out that your previous five-post rolling meltdown was actually more credible than this wild 'getting Argentina to a Copa America final is better than Portugal's first ever major tournament win' hot take. How utterly embarrassing for you. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

12 hours ago, virginton said:

Oooft, turns out that your previous five-post rolling meltdown was actually more credible than this wild 'getting Argentina to a Copa America final is better than Portugal's first ever major tournament win' hot take. How utterly embarrassing for you. 

Again you're talking utter shite and making stuff up. You're a fanny.

[D.A.F.C]

On 17/08/2020 at 14:50, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Again, that's pish. There were forty different conflicting rumours last night, then his management company came out and said they were all pish. Until you hear something from them or the club its nonsense. There's no chance Messi will leave, he has never said he will, always says he wants to stay, and has been true to his word about everything his whole career.

I actually think if someone was to give them 100m and to get his wages off the books maybe they should do it and start to rebuild, but no danger he goes. At the very least he'll see out his contract.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53911105
 

 

[JMDP]

Going back to something from a couple of pages ago, Dybala is a fucking amazing player. Also, just won Serie A player of the year.