Any lunatics still thinking Messi is the best?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Has he asked for you as Director of Football, you could keep Koeman right.

Sadly not, presumably because of the language barrier.

[Derry Alli]

On 15/08/2020 at 10:10, Mr. Alli said:

Nobody even notices when Ronaldo has a poor game now, he's that insignificant at the top level of football. 

... And within a week of this post, Juventus make him available for transfer. 

[Gaz]

I've never understood the argument that Ronaldo is better because Portgual won the Euros.

[vikingTON]

On 18/08/2020 at 10:32, Gaz said:

I've never understood the argument that Ronaldo is better because Portgual won the Euros.

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't carried Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by vikingTON

[D Angelo Barksdale]

I think Koeman and Messi have quite a good understanding, having worked together years ago.

I'll be backing the big Dutchman to get the best out of the little Argentinean as he proves himself the GOAT once more.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Nah that's pish, he took Argentina to three finals, that's at least the equal achievement to Ronaldo who can hardly claim the fact Portugal won one of them makes his a bigger acheivement given he wasn't even on the park at the time. Messi took Argentina to a WC final, has Ronaldo managed that?

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

10 hours ago, virginton said:

While not at an equivalent level, it's similar to the argument that Maradona was better because he was the decisive factor in Argentina winning the World Cup with a not outstanding team. Portugal weren't exactly a Greece 2004 collection of jobbers when they won the Euros but they wouldn't have managed to get anywhere near the final in the context of that tournament without Ronaldo.

I don't think that it's a particularly strong argument but the more interesting part is the Messi counter-example right now. For all of his undoubted brilliance, he hasn't Argentina to any significant achievement at all: that's certainly not how I would characterise their progress to the World Cup Final in 2014 and even in their weakest squads in the past 15 years have still had other quality players to work with. Some all-time world class players are able to use their immense gravity to push an otherwise average team to a striking achievement: for Messi and Argentina, it has instead turned into a totally predictable hype-flop-retire-recant cycle every other year. His sheer stature overshadows the rest of his national team, undermines whichever manager isn't getting the best out of him and therefore contributes to the national setup being as much of a zoo over the past decade as Barcelona have turned into over the past five years. I don't think that Messi holds the chief responsibility for that - it's primarily caused by not having a clearly defined hierarchy at either institution - but he doesn't help matters either. Ronaldo, for all his preening external arrogance, has on the other hand been an undoubted talisman for his club and country. 

Oh I just noticed its you making stuff up again.  Carry on.

[vikingTON]

Oooft, turns out that your previous five-post rolling meltdown was actually more credible than this wild 'getting Argentina to a Copa America final is better than Portugal's first ever major tournament win' hot take. How utterly embarrassing for you. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

12 hours ago, virginton said:

Oooft, turns out that your previous five-post rolling meltdown was actually more credible than this wild 'getting Argentina to a Copa America final is better than Portugal's first ever major tournament win' hot take. How utterly embarrassing for you. 

Again you're talking utter shite and making stuff up. You're a fanny.

[D.A.F.C]

On 17/08/2020 at 14:50, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Again, that's pish. There were forty different conflicting rumours last night, then his management company came out and said they were all pish. Until you hear something from them or the club its nonsense. There's no chance Messi will leave, he has never said he will, always says he wants to stay, and has been true to his word about everything his whole career.

I actually think if someone was to give them 100m and to get his wages off the books maybe they should do it and start to rebuild, but no danger he goes. At the very least he'll see out his contract.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53911105
 

 

[JMDP]

Going back to something from a couple of pages ago, Dybala is a fucking amazing player. Also, just won Serie A player of the year. 

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

On 25/08/2020 at 20:39, D.A.F.C said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53911105
 

 

Ahem

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54032101

 

It was quite obvious tbf.  Nobody who Messi would want to sign for can afford him, it was always a non-starter.

[D.A.F.C]

Ahem
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54032101
 
It was quite obvious tbf.  Nobody who Messi would want to sign for can afford him, it was always a non-starter.

Barca have blocked him but he wants to leave.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 minute ago, D.A.F.C said:

11 minutes ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Ahem
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54032101
 
It was quite obvious tbf.  Nobody who Messi would want to sign for can afford him, it was always a non-starter.

Barca have blocked him but he wants to leave.

Erm he decided to stay and see out his contract.  You'll note that's like word for word what I said would happen.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Its just a shambles really, the worst of both worlds for everyone.  Very sad.  I don't know if anyone has ever done a worse job at anything than Bartomeu has at running Barcelona. Maybe JFK's Secret Service detail that's about it.

[D.A.F.C]

He has come across badly here tbh.
Another mercenary p***k

[sergie's no1 fan]

He has come across badly here tbh.
Another mercenary p***k

He has flirted with City twice before to get a better deal at Barca.

Only he can get away with it though.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

8 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

He has come across badly here tbh.
Another mercenary p***k

I don't think so, I think he's the one who has shown integrity and decorum.

[Mr. Brightside]

If all he wanted was a new contract, Barca would have given him one.

[Derry Alli]

14 minutes ago, D.A.F.C said:

He has come across badly here tbh.
Another mercenary p***k

That's not how I read it at all. He held his side of the bargain and asked to leave at the end of the season. Saying he wanted out before June 10th would have ruined their season (although it turned out that way anyway). I actually fell quite sorry for him reading that - he's made a hell of a lot of money from that club but he's given them fucking loads too. He will now be chastised for every misplaced pass (so four times next season) or every poor game (two, tops). 

Just let the man go.