Support for 2nd independence referendum

[AUFC90]

They have their own currencies and will have to set a target date eventually. The Unionist parties in Westminster have ruled out a currency union. The EU would not permit sterlingisation as there would be no lender of last resort. I support a new Scottish currency for an independent Scotland. Why won't the SNP propose one?

Eventually ? So they won't be FORCED to change to the Euro anytime soon or at all. Glad we've cleared that up.

Got to go. Enjoy swallow swallowing the establishment's shite.

[invergowrie arab]

They have their own currencies and will have to set a target date eventually.

cool, when? they have only been members for a decade.

[The_Kincardine]

You will find that impossible to justify. Norway makes a large contribution to EU projects and also implements a large number of EU laws and policies and has zero influence over how those laws are formulated. However, it's impossible to say if Norway would contribute more or less than it currently does if was a full EU member.

That's not true. There are clear rules for calculating financial contributions to the EU. Norway's contribution is much less than it would be if it was a full Member of the EU. It also avoids the cost of paying for MEPs and their associated expenses.

So what does Norway pay currently with respect to its various EU and EFTA commitments? How much will this increase by if it ever joined the EU? No doubt you have ready access to this information seeing as, "clear rules for calculating financial contributions".

Promoting the idea of 'Euro-cheap' is glib, ignorant and unjustifiable.

[strichener]

So what does Norway pay currently with respect to its various EU and EFTA commitments? How much will this increase by if it ever joined the EU? No doubt you have ready access to this information seeing as, "clear rules for calculating financial contributions".

Promoting the idea of 'Euro-cheap' is glib, ignorant and unjustifiable.

Www.eu-norway.org/eu/financial-contribution/

Turns the impossible into the possible.....

[The_Kincardine]

Www.eu-norway.org/eu/financial-contribution/

Turns the impossible into the possible.....

Ah yes it very clearly gives the answer: "It is not possible to compare net payments between those of an EU Member State and those of a Non-Member state."

[strichener]

Ah yes it very clearly gives the answer: "It is not possible to compare net payments between those of an EU Member State and those of a Non-Member state."

I agree with this statement. You are either intentionally deflecting from your initial statement or you do not actually comprehend the difference between comparing Norway to a EU member state with comparing Norway in and out of the EU.

Numbers:

EFTA - 3.27bln since 1994 or approx. 160mln per annum

EU programs - 296mln per annum

INTERREG - 20mln per annum

Total: €476m

Meanwhils, Sweden which is substantially smaller than Noway in terms of their economy spend over €2lbn. Slovakia contributes more to the EU than Norway currently does.

[Colkitto]

UK may offer Scots second independence referendum

SCOTTISH voters could be offered a second independence referendum by the UK government despite fears over its effect on the economy, according to a former deputy first minister.

Former Lib Dem leader Lord Wallace, who is currently serving as Westminster’s legal adviser on Scotland, believes that a future government would agree to another referendum being underpinned by statute to give it legitimacy.

Speaking in The Sunday Times, he said: “Well, I think the precedent is there as to what happened and, as you well know, in the law precedent counts a lot.”

[The_Kincardine]

I agree with this statement. You are either intentionally deflecting from your initial statement or you do not actually comprehend the difference between comparing Norway to a EU member state with comparing Norway in and out of the EU.

Numbers:

EFTA - 3.27bln since 1994 or approx. 160mln per annum

EU programs - 296mln per annum

INTERREG - 20mln per annum

Total: €476m

Meanwhils, Sweden which is substantially smaller than Noway in terms of their economy spend over €2lbn. Slovakia contributes more to the EU than Norway currently does.

1. I comprehend perfectly well, " the difference between comparing Norway to a EU member state with comparing Norway in and out of the EU" and I also maintain we don't know that - nor does the link you provided clarify much.

2. Your numbers are shite:

a. because you glided over the crucial, "Norway’s financial contributions include" and

b. you missed "Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein contribute to reducing social and economic disparities in Europe and to strengthening bilateral relations with 15 countries in Central and Southern Europe. 1.79 billion euro has been set aside under the Grants for the 5 year programme period 2009 - 2014. Norway provides around 97 per cent of the funding."

3. Sweden's economy is bigger than Norway's.

4. Surely it was this cavalier approach to uncosted policy that dealt a sever blow to 'Aye' last year? I'd have thought folk would have learned that, "We should do it and it will save us money. Don't know how much but trust me, it will be a lot" really does not go down well.

[FuzzyAffro]

No it was utter lies from the no camp and sheer shitebagger that dealt a severe blow to yes.

If you want to talk about cavalier approaches to uncosted policy you'd be best looking at the entire fiscal policy of a state that is losing two grand a second first.

[John Lambies Doos]

We would also be in NATO in a heartbeat if we wanted. Do u really think NATO would want the seas north of Scotland exposed??? Ffs. More shite that was peddled by the nawbags

[FuzzyAffro]

Of course we would, NATO was a total skoosh.

[Baxter Parp]

It's not impossible if the convergence criteria are met and they should be. As Scotland does not have its own currency, the ERM criterion is not applicable.

ERM II Is voluntary, you must track the euro for at least 2 years with your own currency ergo immediate admittance to the euro zone is utterly impossible. QED.

[Bishop Briggs]

ERM II Is voluntary, you must track the euro for at least 2 years with your own currency ergo immediate admittance to the euro zone is utterly impossible. QED.

QED? Scotland does not have its own currency (my preference) and the SNP is not proposing to establish one. The UK will not track the Euro for two years after the ERM debacle under Major . The main Unionist parties have ruled out a currency union. Sterling-isation would not be an acceptable option for the EU - no central bank/lender of last resort. So what's the SNP's alternative currency plan to meet the EU's membership criteria?

[Tibbermoresaint]

Any chance you could provide some proof that sterlingisation would not be acceptable?

You've made this claim on a number of occasions but have yet to provide any evidence to substantiate it. Do so now.

[Todders]

QED? Scotland does not have its own currency (my preference) and the SNP is not proposing to establish one. The UK will not track the Euro for two years after the ERM debacle under Major . The main Unionist parties have ruled out a currency union. Sterling-isation would not be an acceptable option for the EU - no central bank/lender of last resort. So what's the SNP's alternative currency plan to meet the EU's membership criteria?

That is not EU membership criteria. That is Eurozone criteria. Two VERY different things.

[Thumper]

Holy f**k, an entire forum paralysed by one Unionist troll repeating every random bit of shite BT came up with last year.

[Baxter Parp]

QED? Scotland does not have its own currency (my preference) and the SNP is not proposing to establish one. The UK will not track the Euro for two years after the ERM debacle under Major . The main Unionist parties have ruled out a currency union. Sterling-isation would not be an acceptable option for the EU - no central bank/lender of last resort. So what's the SNP's alternative currency plan to meet the EU's membership criteria?

Scotland hasn't got it's own currency so it can't track the Euro as per the rule for joining the euro zone, dimwit. Nor can it be compelled to join ERM II. QE fucking D.

[strichener]

1. I comprehend perfectly well, " the difference between comparing Norway to a EU member state with comparing Norway in and out of the EU" and I also maintain we don't know that - nor does the link you provided clarify much.

2. Your numbers are shite:

a. because you glided over the crucial, "Norway’s financial contributions include" and

b. you missed "Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein contribute to reducing social and economic disparities in Europe and to strengthening bilateral relations with 15 countries in Central and Southern Europe. 1.79 billion euro has been set aside under the Grants for the 5 year programme period 2009 - 2014. Norway provides around 97 per cent of the funding."

3. Sweden's economy is bigger than Norway's.

4. Surely it was this cavalier approach to uncosted policy that dealt a sever blow to 'Aye' last year? I'd have thought folk would have learned that, "We should do it and it will save us money. Don't know how much but trust me, it will be a lot" really does not go down well.

1. You obviously don't understand the difference or you wouldn't have quoted something that indicates something completely different to your argument.

2a. I have provided the figures which include the main economic impacts for Norway's relationship with Europe.

2b. You need to read it again. The number that I used includes this. For further clarification read:

http://www.eu-norway.org/ARKIV/newsarchives/EEA_agreement_facts/#.VQ_1pOFl9Ao.

and

http://eeagrants.org/Results-data/Results-overview/Documents/Annual-reports/Reports-1994-2004

I'll leave it to you to do the sums.

You should also learn about the split of EEA and Norway grants. The latter being part of Norway's commitment to provide .7% of GDP as International Aid and not formally part of the EEA agreement. This is around €800m for the current funding period.

3. My mistake, I was looking at GDP per person. Norway is around 10% smaller than Sweden in GDP terms, this doesn't help your argument in the slightest.

4. The same could be said for the dismissive attitude of those that make statements that are incorrect, such as:

You will find that impossible to justify. Norway makes a large contribution to EU projects and also implements a large number of EU laws and policies and has zero influence over how those laws are formulated. However, it's impossible to say if Norway would contribute more or less than it currently does if was a full EU member.

Maybe you can explain how it is impossible.

[Fotbawmad]

The good ole central bank, a private company that is making a handsome cut for every pound note that gets printed.

Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws!

The BoE was nationalized after the war in 1946, although I've heard it's been part nationalized since in 1977. It's a bit murky since it was given a royal charter and is protected by the official secrets act. Which effectively allows major players and royals to do financial transactions through it. Like buying shares, while allowing themselves to remain anonymous.

The government gets to mint and print it's own notes and coins, but that only makes up a tiny fraction of the money supply. The BoE in it's current state is not nearly as influential as most would believe. The real power comes from the big commercial banks.

I do agree central banking is an outdated concept, and I hope it will be largely swept away in the coming century. It's not right a central authority gets to determine what the price of money should be; who gets bailed out and who gets the money first and for what purpose.

[I'm Brian]

Seems the right thread to put this in but I think we all knew this

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-figures-revealed-majority-5408163#ICID=sharebar_twitter