fanny paddery Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 I would be interested to hear the views of P&B on courtsiding. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-32402945 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks to that article I've learned what courtsiding actually is. I'd heard about it before but always just thought courtsiding was someone sitting there actually betting on points as they happened; an advantage because their "live" presence would be able to beat the odds changing on bookies/exchanges by a few seconds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Quite rightly illegal, basically fraud.Is the whole purpose of gambling not trying to find an edge? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's pretty much the same as that London trader the US are after was up to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHallSaint Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 So for instance if I'm at a football match its 0-0 after twenty minutes and the gk comes out and fouls the last man when clean through on goal. The keepers down injured I know he's getting sent off and I put a bet in play on the opposing team to go and win knowing they will have the man advantage for 70 minutes. Is that illegal if I sit in the crowd and place that bet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's pretty much the same as that London trader the US are after was up to. It's nothing like that in the slightest. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fraser Fyvie Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's annoying, but not much can be done about it. I had to stop trading darts due to boardsiders who would place lumps of money in the market before the events happened on the TV pictures. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Actually noticed it last night in Copa Libertadores. San Lorenzo v Danubio was 0-0 in the 88th minute when Danubio won a corner. Suddenly the odds were all over the place for a few seconds before being suspended, and then finally about 5 seconds later Danubio take the corner and head it in. Pitchsiding? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 So for instance if I'm at a football match its 0-0 after twenty minutes and the gk comes out and fouls the last man when clean through on goal. The keepers down injured I know he's getting sent off and I put a bet in play on the opposing team to go and win knowing they will have the man advantage for 70 minutes. Is that illegal if I sit in the crowd and place that bet? Markets always suspend in situations like that (unless it's a Betfair unmanaged market or whoever is running the market is incompetent). There might be a few seconds where you can try and place your bet and hope that you will be able to beat the delay in feed being transmitted to a bookies/exchange, but it's unlikely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Markets always suspend in situations like that (unless it's a Betfair unmanaged market or whoever is running the market is incompetent). There might be a few seconds where you can try and place your bet and hope that you will be able to beat the delay in feed being transmitted to a bookies/exchange, but it's unlikely. The whole point of courtsiding is that you beat the suspend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 It's nothing like that in the slightest. The London trader was manipulating the high frequency trading system which is based on getting information passed quicker than anyone else, which is exactly what courtsiders do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHallSaint Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The whole point of courtsiding is that you beat the suspend. That was my point you get your bet on before the market suspends. I don't see how they can advertise "bet on the move" and not expect this to happen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 The whole point of courtsiding is that you beat the suspend. I know that. And technically, it depends on the sport. In tennis, the point is not to beat the suspend but to beat the change in odds. In football, yeah, it would be the suspend. YHallSaint described a situation where it would be possible, but I pointed out that unless he was quick or there was incompetence on the other side, it would be unlikely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmare Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) I genuinely can't comprehend how anybody can try and defend this, it's blatant disregard for the spirit gambling is meant to be taken it. I'm alright with people taking money from bookies in this manner. It isn't in "the spirit of gambling" to limit people who actually have the ability to win money from you, or collaborate with other bookies to see arbers banned because you haven't been able to price markets correctly and people have been able to exploit it. Bookies have been moving the goalposts on punters for years, so if they're leaving themselves open to getting fucked about, then good. Edited April 23, 2015 by Nightmare 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Does anyone know how the courtsiders transfer the information faster than the bookies? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanny paddery Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Does anyone know how the courtsiders transfer the information faster than the bookies? I presume it is directly over the internet, while normal tv feeds have to be sent to satellites etc 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Even the radio comes in quicker than satellite tv pictures? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If bookies market their on the go services and offer markets on matches where people can attend and bet live, I have no qualms about people having an edge on the bookmaker. I wouldn't think of that as fraud and the bookies just have to suck it up. The whole transmitting this data back to a centre where a whale can use it to his advantage, now that gets into a grey moral area. Bookies have a perceived edge in just about everything they market, so I find it difficult to feel sorry for them. If I am at a game, and I see the star player of Team A injure himself in warm up and gets replaced, using that information to place a bet at the game for Team B to win, that isn't fraud. Likewise you are at the US Open watching Andy Murray warm up, you see that he has tweaked his hamstring in the practice session, betting on his opponent isn't fraud. The difference between stock market traders and sports traders is mainly stock traders are trading assets. If you sell shares in a company using inside knowledge, knowing that the company is going to lose value, you are defrauding someone. You have sold a physical asset. There is no buying or selling of assets in betting. Although you could perceive the information as an asset. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mid-table Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I see nothing wrong with courtsiding whatsoever. If a bookmaker is offering odds, then it's their responsibility to make sure that their odds reflect the current state of play in the event. It's not as if the 'thing' hasn't happened, it has, it's just that someone was quicker to process that the 'thing' had happened. If something happens in Melbourne at 14:00:00, and bookmakers only find out about it at 14:00:03, then that's their problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) I see nothing wrong with courtsiding whatsoever. If a bookmaker is offering odds, then it's their responsibility to make sure that their odds reflect the current state of play in the event. It's not as if the 'thing' hasn't happened, it has, it's just that someone was quicker to process that the 'thing' had happened. If something happens in Melbourne at 14:00:00, and bookmakers only find out about it at 14:00:03, then that's their problem. It means a privileged few can skew the market and end any pretense of a level playing field. Puts the ordinary punter without access to the early data and technology to process it at an unfair disadvantage. P.S. If I had the chance to benefit by it myself I wouldn't hesitate of course. Edited April 24, 2015 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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