MarkoRaj Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Its a bittersweet feeling for sure. Scotland voted resoundingly SNP, a remarkable 50% of the Scottish vote, but we have another Tory government to look forward to, unchecked by any moderating influence. Despite the euphoria of many SNP supporters, I just can't celebrate that dismal prospect. After a fractious, divisive referendum and a fractious, divisive election campaign we have years of fractious, divisive conflict to look forward to. Salmond will be in his element, waging war against the newly empowered Cameron and co., but I can't say I have much appetite for it. Labour deserved to be wiped out in Scotland. They've been Tory-Lite since Blair. Clegg and the Lib Dems were happy to sell out their principles for the crumbs from Cameron's table, but Labour standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories during the Independence referendum and Miliband obsequiously aping Cameron and the MSMs distaste for the SNP, and by extension the Scottish people and their right to participate in the democratic process, was a terrible miscalculation. The Tories have been dead in Scotland since Thatcher and the Poll Tax (the curious anomaly of David Mundells popularity in Dumfries and Galloway aside), but it wasnt a protest vote or a mere whim that wiped out Labour in Scotland. They paid the price not just for being complacent and weak and for asking how high when Cameron told them to jump, but for selling out their core principles, for aiding and abetting the rich, for facilitating the bankers, for waging war without just cause. They wont recover in Scotland any time soon. This isn't a blip. Before the Independence referendum, I was a Labour voter. I always distrusted nationalism. Like patriotism, I regarded it as the last refuge of the scoundrel. Despite their generally left-leaning political orientation, I am not an SNP supporter by nature. I have arrived at this point as a result of disillusionment with Labour. I am far from alone. The negative, fear-mongering tenor of the Unionist parties in the lead up to the referendum was a disgrace, but the anti-Scots vitriol spouted by Cameron, Boris Ajockalypse Johnson and Theresa (#worstcrisissincetheabdication) May has been something else entirely. A present PM, the current Home Secretary and a wannabe PM trading in the kind of despicable anti-Scottish soundbites that the Daily Mail might reject for fear of causing offence. The worst of it is, the demonisation of the Scots has patently galvanised the Tory vote. Where does that leave The Union now? Stone cold dead I would say. Never has the feeling that England and Scotland are two separate countries, and two separate cultures, been so pronounced. The chasm is now unbridgeable IMO. The feeling I had the other night, as winning SNP candidate after SNP candidate espoused the party line that they were willing to forge a progressive alliance with left-leaning parties down South, was that Camerons petty, divisive game has worked a treat. Labour is in disarray, and only now that it has been resoundingly defeated, have many in the party come out and said they shouldnt have so readily dismissed the prospect of working with the representatives of the Scottish people. UKIP got 14% in England and 1.6% in Scotland. The Conservatives secured 41% of the vote in England, 14.9% in Scotland. This is a nation profoundly divided, ready to devour itself. The Union simply cant hold. It will be consigned to the history books. I wonder how many of the 55% who voted No in the referendum are regretting that decision now? Yes, the result of the election will help towards securing Independence eventually, but it is years away rather than weeks or months. We have EVEL, the EU membership referendum, the tweaking of the Barnett Formula and a whole messy war of attrition to look forward to now. The road will be bumpy, and constant skirmishes with an emboldened Tory party lie ahead. The English-based MSM will lose no opportunity to stigmatise and scapegoat the Scots. It is not only Salmond's Scottish lion that will roar, but English nationalism has been roused from its slumbers. The process of separation will be long and embittered. Great post. Sums up my thoughts pretty well, apart from I think you're way off with regards to a 'divisive' referendum. Totally different to my experience, I found it to be a fantastic exercise in political engagement from No and yes voters alike, the only divisiveness came from the msm imo. The % of UKIP and Conservative voters in each nation prove without doubt the divergence in political opinion, surely we are now incompatible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Great post. Sums up my thoughts pretty well, apart from I think you're way off with regards to a 'divisive' referendum. Totally different to my experience, I found it to be a fantastic exercise in political engagement from No and yes voters alike, the only divisiveness came from the msm imo. The % of UKIP and Conservative voters in each nation prove without doubt the divergence in political opinion, surely we are now incompatible. I don't buy the idea that No voter became engaged, or particularly enjoyed it. No voters I know generally don't enjoy discussing the issues - or keep quiet when issues are discussed in a bigger group. In that sense I think it was divisive. But like you - I found it completely invigorating. Neither my wife nor my mum have ever really been interested in politics and both became animated by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No voters are complete and utter c***s pure and simple. Know nothing of the issues, don't want to know, and refuse to discuss it. The post was terrific except the bit about nationalism, that is a misconception. When people like Einstein talked of nationalism they are talking about 19th century right-wing nationalism that lead to things like WWI. Scottish nationalism is simply the belief that Scotland should self-determine politically ie be independent. Nothing else, that's all it is. These daft quotes about nationalism don't apply at all. Seriously google it there's lots of different types and the Scottish example has actually recently been added to a couple of dictionaries. There are seven or eight different types of nationalism, and there is nothing wrong or shameful about our nationalism its completely natuarla, entirely civic and a huge force for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishmanAbroad Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The devil comes in many forms. Many different types of nationalism may exist but all are inherently catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No voters I know generally don't enjoy discussing the issues This amuses me. Plenty of Scots whom I know haven't an issue in discussing why they are not small-minded, parochial xenophobes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 This amuses me. Plenty of Scots whom I know haven't an issue in discussing why they are not small-minded, parochial xenophobes. I expected better from you chief. I'm not sure whether you're trolling or are just worn down by the trolls. But either way, this was a dreadful response to a serious point. I have a few good friends who voted No and none of them were comfortable discussing the referendum. They looked like they'd made up their minds but felt slightly guilty about it. Just to be clear these people were not Tories but were probably not as left wing as me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The devil comes in many forms. Many different types of nationalism may exist but all are inherently catastrophic. Yeah you're just too stupid to even discuss anything with. And clearly a British nationalist, given you 'won't give up on this union'. So your nationalism is okay but ours is evil. Typical Britnat, and a troll to boot. On ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 This amuses me. Plenty of Scots whom I know haven't an issue in discussing why they are not small-minded, parochial xenophobes. Idiotic nonsense from a clown. Are you happy to allow all of Europe to elect the UK's government? If not you are a parochial, small-minded xenophobe going by your logic. You're the only xenophobe here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 No voters I know generally don't enjoy discussing the issues - or keep quiet when issues are discussed in a bigger group.that's probably because we don't like being covered in bile, venom and froth that comes from your slavvering mooths in fairness. You're all fucking bigoted fannies. You're running ISIS close in fanaticism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 that's probably because we don't like being covered in bile, venom and froth that comes from your slavvering mooths in fairness. You're all fucking bigoted fannies. You're running ISIS close in fanaticism The problem is no voters are identity nationalists and view Scotland with contempt. So you just can't discuss it with them they just get angry and start throwing out insults like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddly optomistic Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 that's probably because we don't like being covered in bile, venom and froth that comes from your slavvering mooths in fairness. You're all fucking bigoted fannies. You're running ISIS close in fanaticismBut doesn't like vile, venom and froth ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 that's probably because we don't like being covered in bile, venom and froth that comes from your slavvering mooths in fairness. You're all fucking bigoted fannies. You're running ISIS close in fanaticism Hold on. You didn't vote for Calum Kerr? Say it isn't so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 that's probably because we don't like being covered in bile, venom and froth that comes from your slavvering mooths in fairness. You're all fucking bigoted fannies. You're running ISIS close in fanaticism Still hurting from Thursday night heedthebaa? Or are you a happy wee Tory unionist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 They are not taking this well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Still hurting from Thursday night heedthebaa? Or are you a happy wee Tory unionist?happy as larry actually, Cameron in charge with a majority, Labour totally humililiated, Murphy devastated, that wee weasel Clegg offski'd and Scotland with a bigger voice, yes, could not be happier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 happy as larry actually, Cameron in charge with a majority, Labour totally humililiated, Murphy devastated, that wee weasel Clegg offski'd and Scotland with a bigger voice, yes, could not be happier Ahh one of the rare Scottish Tories. Fair play then, enjoy the victory. I'm worried about the direction the country will take but hopeful about the SNP creating a rammy in Westminster. I'm surprised not more is made of the gerrymandering that's going to take place as soon as they're back. Do we just accept this shite, on the basis that every other fucking government has done the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ahh one of the rare Scottish Tories. Fair play then, enjoy the victory. I'm worried about the direction the country will take but hopeful about the SNP creating a rammy in Westminster. I'm surprised not more is made of the gerrymandering that's going to take place as soon as they're back. Do we just accept this shite, on the basis that every other fucking government has done the same? An English Tory that lives in Scotland actually. Kerr ahead of Lamont was always likely to happen, doesn't pit me oot though, I've always voted for who I want to be in No10, so nae skin off my nose there. I can't see where the celebrations are warranted here if I'm honest, 6 to 56, could have been 59 for all I care. Its a bit like getting a kicking off someone, ending up in Hospital but claiming you managed to break the fuckers nose. You've helped to cripple the labour party, the same party you needed to stand any chance of having a proper say, so cheers for that. I've always had a tad sympathy for Scotland and the north of England, the powers that be really don't give much of a f**k about us, but I've personally prospered more under the Tories, so hey ho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 An English Tory that lives in Scotland actually. Kerr ahead of Lamont was always likely to happen, doesn't pit me oot though, I've always voted for who I want to be in No10, so nae skin off my nose there. I can't see where the celebrations are warranted here if I'm honest, 6 to 56, could have been 59 for all I care. Its a bit like getting a kicking off someone, ending up in Hospital but claiming you managed to break the fuckers nose. You've helped to cripple the labour party, the same party you needed to stand any chance of having a proper say, so cheers for that. I've always had a tad sympathy for Scotland and the north of England, the powers that be really don't give much of a f**k about us, but I've personally prospered more under the Tories, so hey ho Your last sentence sums up the effect Thatcher has had on British society. I saw someone on the news say something very similar. What can you do for ME? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 An English Tory that lives in Scotland actually. Kerr ahead of Lamont was always likely to happen, doesn't pit me oot though, I've always voted for who I want to be in No10, so nae skin off my nose there. I can't see where the celebrations are warranted here if I'm honest, 6 to 56, could have been 59 for all I care. Its a bit like getting a kicking off someone, ending up in Hospital but claiming you managed to break the fuckers nose. You've helped to cripple the labour party, the same party you needed to stand any chance of having a proper say, so cheers for that. I've always had a tad sympathy for Scotland and the north of England, the powers that be really don't give much of a f**k about us, but I've personally prospered more under the Tories, so hey ho Feeling bad about this result from an SNP perspective would be like pulling some absolute tidy in your local nightclub but feeling depressed because you've not pulled Mila Kunis that night. The Tories won by 39 seats more than there are seats in Scotland, getting the government we wanted simply wasn't in our hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford prefect Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The tories only have a slender majority. Surely only a couple of Chelsea strips, an orange, rope and a hood away from being unable to get their policies through. Add in their small minded attitude to European issues and they will surely implode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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