FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I completely agree. But most Scots don't. So I would suggest the SNP stand in English constituencies. Turn it into a genuine UK wide movement. A party that wants Scottish independence a UK wide movement? Are you drunk? I think most Scots do agree, they were just scared into a no vote last time. There's no reason to suggest that would be repeated in indyref2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Exactly. Easier said than done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The outcome which is being debated is 5 more yrs of the Torys. If Scotland had sent 59 labour MPs to London..... we would still have 5 more yrs of the Torys. If Labour had not urged their supporters to vote No last yr, then we wouldn't have 5 more yrs of Torys Hence I blame any Labour and their attached No voters Anyone who then subsequently voted for SNP on Thursday has to be respected for learning from their mistake What is also true....is that the vote snp get tory is UTTER PISH Of course it isn't. It happened this week FFS. The reality is far more simple. Vote whomever, get who England vote for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I completely agree. But most Scots don't. So I would suggest the SNP stand in English constituencies. Turn it into a genuine UK wide movement. That's a fairly radical idea. Might have to have a name change. I used to think the North of England was predominantly to the left in it's outlook. However that map still shows a lot of blue in the North, outside of the cities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 That's a fairly radical idea. Might have to have a name change. I used to think the North of England was predominantly to the left in it's outlook. However that map still shows a lot of blue in the North, outside of the cities. The number of folk from England lamenting yet another Tory administration suggests to me the SNP standing as a legitimate alternative (as once did the Lib Dems) to Conservatives and Conservative-lite. You'd get all the disaffected Labour voters - the Billy Bragg vote, if you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie S Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Its a bittersweet feeling for sure. Scotland voted resoundingly SNP, a remarkable 50% of the Scottish vote, but we have another Tory government to look forward to, unchecked by any moderating influence. Despite the euphoria of many SNP supporters, I just can't celebrate that dismal prospect. After a fractious, divisive referendum and a fractious, divisive election campaign we have years of fractious, divisive conflict to look forward to. Salmond will be in his element, waging war against the newly empowered Cameron and co., but I can't say I have much appetite for it. Labour deserved to be wiped out in Scotland. They've been Tory-Lite since Blair. Clegg and the Lib Dems were happy to sell out their principles for the crumbs from Cameron's table, but Labour standing shoulder to shoulder with the Tories during the Independence referendum and Miliband obsequiously aping Cameron and the MSMs distaste for the SNP, and by extension the Scottish people and their right to participate in the democratic process, was a terrible miscalculation. The Tories have been dead in Scotland since Thatcher and the Poll Tax (the curious anomaly of David Mundells popularity in Dumfriesshire aside), but it wasn't a protest vote or a mere whim that wiped out Labour in Scotland. They paid the price not just for being complacent and weak and for asking how high when Cameron told them to jump, but for selling out their core principles, for aiding and abetting the rich, for facilitating the bankers, for waging war without just cause. They won't recover in Scotland any time soon. This isn't a blip. Before the Independence referendum, I was a Labour voter. I always distrusted nationalism. Like patriotism, I regarded it as the last refuge of the scoundrel. Despite their generally left-leaning political orientation, I am not an SNP supporter by nature. I have arrived at this point as a result of disillusionment with Labour. I am far from alone. The negative, fear-mongering tenor of the Unionist parties in the lead up to the referendum was a disgrace, but the anti-Scots vitriol spouted by Cameron, Boris Ajockalypse Johnson and Theresa (#worstcrisissincetheabdication) May has been something else entirely. A present PM, the current Home Secretary and a wannabe PM trading in the kind of despicable anti-Scottish soundbites that the Daily Mail might reject for fear of causing offence. The worst of it is, the demonisation of the Scots has patently galvanised the Tory vote. Where does that leave The Union now? Stone cold dead I would say. Never has the feeling that England and Scotland are two separate countries, and two separate cultures, been so pronounced. The chasm is now unbridgeable IMO. The feeling I had the other night, as winning SNP candidate after SNP candidate espoused the party line that they were willing to forge a progressive alliance with left-leaning parties down South, was that Camerons petty, divisive game has worked a treat. Labour is in disarray, and only now that it has been resoundingly defeated, have many in the party come out and said they shouldn't have so readily dismissed the prospect of working with the representatives of the Scottish people. UKIP got 14% in England and 1.6% in Scotland. The Conservatives secured 41% of the vote in England, 14.9% in Scotland. This is a nation profoundly divided, ready to devour itself. The Union simply cant hold. It will be consigned to the history books. I wonder how many of the 55% who voted No in the referendum are regretting that decision now? Yes, the result of the election will help towards securing Independence eventually, but it is years away rather than weeks or months. We have EVEL, the EU membership referendum, the tweaking of the Barnett Formula and a whole messy war of attrition to look forward to now. The road will be bumpy, and constant skirmishes with an emboldened Tory party lie ahead. The English-based MSM will lose no opportunity to stigmatise and scapegoat the Scots. It is not only Salmond's Scottish lion that will roar, but English nationalism has been roused from its slumbers. The process of separation will be long and embittered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowmore Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The number of folk from England lamenting yet another Tory administration suggests to me the SNP standing as a legitimate alternative (as once did the Lib Dems) to Conservatives and Conservative-lite. You'd get all the disaffected Labour voters - the Billy Bragg vote, if you will. I think you are right. Westminster is possibly hated more in the North West than in any other area of the UK! I also believe that given the choice of Holyrood or Westminster that a high number of Northeners would choose the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The number of folk from England lamenting yet another Tory administration suggests to me the SNP standing as a legitimate alternative (as once did the Lib Dems) to Conservatives and Conservative-lite. You'd get all the disaffected Labour voters - the Billy Bragg vote, if you will. Pie in the sky. It would simply split the anti Tory vote, the last thing any rational person would want to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I disagree. There's absolutely no reason to think an independent Scotland would be inherently more just. It would make a change in society much more likely, but it wouldn't necessarily achieve it in and of itself. Correlation does not imply causation. You are so used to Westminster being unfair that you can't see how anything else can exist. Wouldn't it be so much nicer if this debate was about the government that Scotland voted for in an independent Scotland? Instead it's about the government England voted for that has now been imposed on Scotland, again. This is a never ending loop. It's fine to say that we should all work together and change society, but there is a reality. The reality is that a huge number of English voters are delighted with the Tory majority. I'm not sure why the obvious isn't so obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Mercer Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The worst of it is, the demonisation of the Scots has patently galvanised the Tory vote. Bingo! As an observer from the outside, I've pretty much got all my news from the UK MSM online. The UK election was a mere blip on the news over here. Hardly anyone at my workplace knew or cared about it, probably because the UK is hardly relevant nowadays. What I saw was shocking. A continuous flood of spitting venom at the Scots for peer approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! I reckon there will be further cuts by the Tories in the NHS mental health budget so it's pretty bad news for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I completely agree. But most Scots don't. So I would suggest the SNP stand in English constituencies. Turn it into a genuine UK wide movement. Senp=scottish english national party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonapersona Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Fair enough. You're a true unionist-at-any-cost type of person. You have every right to that opinion. A dying opinion, mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Wallace, I thought you were dead. Were you just after the life insurance money or are you talking to us from beyond the grave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Jokes about mental illness. Classy. Escapes his straight jacket to post a comment. Dexterous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Of course you would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The people you are blaming for now having the Conservatives in power would argue precisely the same is possibly from within the current setup. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with them, I don't see it as a blameworthy position to adopt. They're arguing for nothing then. They voted to remain part of a right wing country who don't give a f**k about the poor and now they moan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaikuHibee Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Would still rather live in a Tory controlled Britain than an Independent Scotland!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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