Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Oh, I don't disagree with any of that. But given the majority of Scots oppose independence, the next best thing is to vote SNP in lieu of Labour? Why turn against what seems to me to be a highly moral stance? For most people in Scotland, independence is not the soul purpose of voting. There is no 'next best thing'. Voting for either of them makes little difference if England returns a Tory majority. What moral stance did they take? Are we talking about voting anti-austerity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The only time the Scottish people had absolute power and sovereignty was last September. With all due respect I couldnt give a shit about the Home counties; and the Scottish voters have no influence on what the voters in the home counties do. The discussion is about 5 more yrs of torys and imo Scottish Labour are firmly to blame for this alongside their no voting drones. I lay the blame firmly at Labour's door too. The Tories left most of the campaigning to Labour and put a Labour guy (Darling) up as the figurehead of Better Together. If it was the Tories campaigning for a No then we'd be independent by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 There is no 'next best thing'. Voting for either of them makes little difference if England returns a Tory majority. What moral stance did they take? Are we talking about voting anti-austerity? I think we are, yes. And all the other policies which differentiate the SNP from the political mainstream towards a more progressive society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The only time the Scottish people had absolute power and sovereignty was last September. With all due respect I couldnt give a shit about the Home counties; and the Scottish voters have no influence on what the voters in the home counties do. The discussion is about 5 more yrs of torys and imo Scottish Labour are firmly to blame for this alongside their no voting drones. Okay, so independence is your goal, rather than a change in society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Okay, so independence is your goal, rather than a change in society? Independence is a change in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Independence is a change in society. I disagree. There's absolutely no reason to think an independent Scotland would be inherently more just. It would make a change in society much more likely, but it wouldn't necessarily achieve it in and of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Okay, so independence is your goal, rather than a change in society? Ive never denied that independence was my goal. I firmly believe that as an independent country we would be more prosperous, more socially just and more progressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 The ones that voted no. They are to blame for every Tory government Scotland ever gets from now on, starting with this one. Thanks no voters, good job. You got pmt, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ive never denied that independence was my goal. I firmly believe that as an independent country we would be more prosperous, more socially just and more progressive. The people you are blaming for now having the Conservatives in power would argue precisely the same is possibly from within the current setup. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with them, I don't see it as a blameworthy position to adopt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geronimo Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevthedee Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Ive never denied that independence was my goal. I firmly believe that as an independent country we would be more prosperous, more socially just and more progressive. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/war--peace-david-cameron-5665209 Whats your view on this story ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I think we are, yes. And all the other policies which differentiate the SNP from the political mainstream towards a more progressive society. Now someone just needs to convince England it's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/war--peace-david-cameron-5665209 Whats your view on this story ? Give us every penny of tax raised in Scotland and allow us to spend it how we like less our portion for defence and foreign policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Okay, so independence is your goal, rather than a change in society? Independence would make changing society easier and would give the greatest chance of prolonging the effect of that change in society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I disagree. There's absolutely no reason to think an independent Scotland would be inherently more just. It would make a change in society much more likely, but it wouldn't necessarily achieve it in and of itself. Yes there is, voting patterns. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Now someone just needs to convince England it's a good idea. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I disagree. There's absolutely no reason to think an independent Scotland would be inherently more just. It would make a change in society much more likely, but it wouldn't necessarily achieve it in and of itself. I disagree. There's absolutely no reason to think an independent Scotland would be inherently more just. It would make a change in society much more likely, but it wouldn't necessarily achieve it in and of itself.That's so suggest the dominant political views in Scotland are no different than those in rUK. Nothing could be further from the truth as this election has shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Exactly. So Scottish society should be held back from progressive change until England realises its a good idea too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Independence would make changing society easier and would give the greatest chance of prolonging the effect of that change in society. I completely agree. But most Scots don't. So I would suggest the SNP stand in English constituencies. Turn it into a genuine UK wide movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 FFA is a great idea, but the SNP need to hammer home the message FFA means Scotland gets 100% of Scotland's share of North Sea revenues. If we do FFA makes us better off. SNP also need to hammer home in the media this talk of a black hole is pish as the UK has a similar sized black hole so it makes no difference either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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