Parking fines

[lichtgilphead]

3 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

Yeah, it was me. The photo they sent me as evidence in the letters I didn't receive () only contained an image taken by a person. I'm not 100% about using the Scaffolding excuse as there were other visible signs.

This is my thoughts, and if they do have footage of me, then I will use the scaffolding excuse.

The fine is for £160, plus expenses, Plus 8%.

If you didn't receive the earlier letters, then thats the avenue to go down. They have to show that they made reasonable efforts to resolve the matter before starting court proceedings. 

If you saw the other signs, then the scaffolding defence is unlikely to work

[Cyclizine]

2 hours ago, johnnydun said:

This is great info, thank you so much.

That is the form I received with a case reference number.

The bottom link you gave me was the one I read earlier, and that's exactly what I took from it. 

I'm not going to admit breach of contract, I'm going to say I never entered a contract as it wasn't me. 

I'd be careful here, the companies do Google searches and you've pretty much identified yourself by naming the specific location and your defence.

[johnnydun]

4 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I'd be careful here, the companies do Google searches and you've pretty much identified yourself by naming the specific location and your defence.

I'm asking advice on behalf of by 2nd cousins uncle.

[lichtgilphead]

Thinking more about the earlier letters, did you get copies of them in the bundle from the court? Is there an obvious reason why you didn't receive them (wrong name, address etc). If so, you could say that you would happily have paid the original penalty charge at the initial discounted rate, but as you didn't know about it,  it's unjust to punish you by increasing the amount they say you are due.

Btw - don't dignify the penalty charge by calling it a fine. It's not a fine - just an unpaid invoice.

[johnnydun]

10 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

How long ago was it? Not remembering who was driving would be more convincing if it was a while ago. 

Probably about a year ago, maybe more? I will have to check.

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Thinking more about the earlier letters, did you get copies of them in the bundle from the court? Is there an obvious reason why you didn't receive them (wrong name, address etc). If so, you could say that you would happily have paid the original penalty charge at the initial discounted rate, but as you didn't know about it,  it's unjust to punish you by increasing the amount they say you are due.

Btw - don't dignify the penalty charge by calling it a fine. It's not a fine - just an unpaid invoice.

No they did not include the earlier letters, just mentioned they had sent them in the 'Simple Procedure' form.

[Nutz_the_Squirrel]

Wild that P&B is a first port of call for legal advice for some. Our collective ‘know how’ is going to get someone put on death row for putting a tin of beans in with the plastic recycling bin. 

[lichtgilphead]

1 minute ago, johnnydun said:

Probably about a year ago, maybe more? I will have to check.

No they did not include the earlier letters, just mentioned they had sent them in the 'Simple Procedure' form.

That's what you need to concentrate on, then.

Your defence should be to ask them to produce these letters in court, with specific reference to how they knew they had been delivered (recorded delivery etc)

Are your details with DVLA up to date? That's how they will have traced you originally. If they sent the letters to a previous address, then you can state that you had no knowledge of the original debt.

Again, I would suggest that you take advantage of the initial free 15 minutes with a solicitor before going any further.

[welshbairn]

37 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I'd be careful here, the companies do Google searches and you've pretty much identified yourself by naming the specific location and your defence.

I was wondering about that too, might be wise to delete all our posts on the precautionary principle, it's unlikely their Internet sleuths are working on a Sunday, if they exist. 

@johnnydun? 

 

P. S. Going ahead and deleting mine as I'm off out. 

Edited February 25 by welshbairn

[Cyclizine]

7 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I was wondering about that too, might be wise to delete all our posts on the precautionary principle, it's unlikely their Internet sleuths are working on a Sunday, if they exist. 

@johnnydun? 

I think it's probably a pretty slim chance, but if they're going to the effort of simple procedure, then I wouldn't put doing a quick online keyword search past them. Could just edit the posts and remove specifics: the location, court, the signage issue etc.

[johnnydun]

14 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I was wondering about that too, might be wise to delete all our posts on the precautionary principle, it's unlikely their Internet sleuths are working on a Sunday, if they exist. 

@johnnydun? 

 

P. S. Going ahead and deleting mine as I'm off out. 

 

4 minutes ago, Cyclizine said:

I think it's probably a pretty slim chance, but if they're going to the effort of simple procedure, then I wouldn't put doing a quick online keyword search past them. Could just edit the posts and remove specifics: the location, court, the signage issue etc.

@die hard doonhamer @lichtgilphead can you remove your original replies please? I've edited the original post.

I know it's unlikely but not impossible.

[johnnydun]

Just checked and there's no CCTV.

[johnnydun]

37 minutes ago, Nutz_the_Squirrel said:

Wild that P&B is a first port of call for legal advice for some. Our collective ‘know how’ is going to get someone put on death row for putting a tin of beans in with the plastic recycling bin. 

I think some of the advice given out on P&B, that isn't a piss take, is worth it's weight in gold.

Full of all sorts of folks with all sorts of careers and experience. 

It's great.

[lichtgilphead]

17 minutes ago, johnnydun said:

 

@die hard doonhamer @lichtgilphead can you remove your original replies please? I've edited the original post.

I know it's unlikely but not impossible.

II've edited my original post to match yours

[Left Back]

So to summarise what’s happened while I’ve been out.

We have a poster who admits he’s not a lawyer, but claims to be an expert in the field that actual lawyers go to for advice about this, and his advice seems to be to go and see a lawyer before you do anything else.  
 

Presumably he’s hoping an actual lawyer can sort this out for you with the free 15 minute consultation he’s recommending.

 

[Leith Green]

2 hours ago, tamthebam said:

I'm surprised the sods bothered to take @johnnydun to court as it's about the same amount to lodge a small claim (or modern equivalent) as is the supposed "parking fee".

The case will end up in front of a summary sheriff who you might hope has been stung by one of these gits before they became a sheriff.. 

My understanding was that it was basically uneconomic for them to take you to court unless it was for multiple offences - anything less than £300/£400 is basically not worth it.

I believe the "lawyers" they use that the no win no fee jobs and wont even do the court work unless they get paid by the parking company.

I know its easy for me to say, but it "feels" like just telling them you dont know who was driving will get you off this @johnnydun

[welshbairn]

Does anyone know anybody who's actually been taken to a small claims court over a parking "fine"? I've had a few where I've followed the in the bin strategy and it's always worked and a few where I've got a supermarket to tell them to squash it, but I'd hesitate to advise someone what to say in court. I'd at least want to know what the worst case scenario would be if the court backs the parking firm. 

Edited February 25 by welshbairn

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Left Back said:

So to summarise what’s happened while I’ve been out.

We have a poster who admits he’s not a lawyer, but claims to be an expert in the field that actual lawyers go to for advice about this, and his advice seems to be to go and see a lawyer before you do anything else.  
 

Presumably he’s hoping an actual lawyer can sort this out for you with the free 15 minute consultation he’s recommending.

 

I never claimed to be a lawyer, but I listed my professional qualifications. You would be surprised by how often firms of solicitors come to Trading Standards for consumer law advice, then charge their clients for passing on the free advice given. 

However, as I know that Johnny's local TS department do not provide a civil law advice or representation service, I suggested that he contact a solicitor for some free advice. He can then decide whether or not to engage legal representation.

As Welshy states, he should find out what the worst case scenario is and what chance he has of winning. It will cost a 4 figure sum to have a solicitor to represent him in court, plus the same (or more) for the pursuer if costs are awarded against him. That's a lot to gamble for an invoice for under £200, even though I suspect that costs won't be awarded. However, if costs aren't awarded, he won't get his solicitors fees back.

Personally, I would weigh up my chances of winning after taking some free advice, represent myself & hope that the pursuer either abandons or doesn't turn up on the day.

So, what's your expert advice @Left Back, or are you just sniping from the sidelines with your usual irrelevant nonsensical shite? Some of us in this thread are actially trying to help other posters.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

I never claimed to be a lawyer, but I listed my professional qualifications. You would be surprised by how often firms of solicitors come to Trading Standards for consumer law advice, then charge their clients for passing on the free advice given. 

However, as I know that Johnny's local TS department do not provide a civil law advice or representation service, I suggested that he contact a solicitor for some free advice. He can then decide whether or not to engage legal representation.

As Welshy states, he should find out what the worst case scenario is and what chance he has of winning. It will cost a 4 figure sum to have a solicitor to represent him in court, plus the same (or more) for the pursuer if costs are awarded against him. That's a lot to gamble for an invoice for under £200, even though I suspect that costs won't be awarded. However, if costs aren't awarded, he won't get his solicitors fees back.

Personally, I would weigh up my chances of winning after taking some free advice, represent myself & hope that the pursuer either abandons or doesn't turn up on the day.

So, what's your expert advice @Left Back, or are you just sniping from the sidelines with your usual irrelevant nonsensical shite? Some of us in this thread are actially trying to help other posters.

I’n not the one that claimed to be an expert so didn’t offer any advice.

I’m curious.  If you’re an expert why are you advising consulting a lawyer?  If that isn’t the course of action you would take personally (with all your expertise) why advise someone else to do it?  Perhaps you realise your opinion is actually worthless when it comes down to it despite you professing to be the font of all knowledge.  This is because you know you have no clue what you’re talking about on this subject.
 

I’m sure a solicitor is going to say “take the advice from the Internet expert.  No need for me mate”.  That’s how they make a living at the end of the day.  Sending potential clients away with free advice so they no longer require a solicitor.  Surely you weren’t advising consulting a solicitor to confirm it would cost more than the invoice value to retain a solicitor.  I’m positive no-one would be that stupid…

When you start flinging abuse at me for no reason other than you don’t get the basic concept of humour I’ll quite happily point out what a self important, egotistical clown you are.

 

[lichtgilphead]

3 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I’m curious.  If you’re an expert why are you advising consulting a lawyer? 

FFS, you moron. I already said that Johnny's local TS department don't do civil law advice or representation. Otherwise I would send him there.

I'm over 100 miles away, so can't look at the documentation myself, and would not suggest he posts it on here. Without full details, I'm in no position to offer full professional advice. I don't even know who the pursuers are or the amount they are claiming!        

If you don't know that many solicitors offer an initial free 15 minutes, I'm not sure how I can convince you. Maybe you could google "free initial legal consultation scotland" and look at the first 20 pages or so of results.

In 15 minutes, a solicitor can give an initial opinion of the chances of success, and set out his fees. If he glances at the papers & thinks there's no chance of Johnny winning, he should say so. He would send Johnny away with that free advice in those circumstances.

If he thinks that Johnny would win, but wouldn't get his costs back, he would also send Johnny away with that free advice.

29 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Perhaps you realise your opinion is actually worthless when it comes down to it despite you professing to be the font of all knowledge.  This is because you know you have no clue what you’re talking about on this subject.

Yeah, yeah. My advice is rubbish. I'm amazed that my employers continue to have such a good opinion of me, after that devastating critique.

Maybe, just maybe, they've looked at my professional qualifications & experience instead of taking the word of a random poster on P'n'B.

36 minutes ago, Left Back said:

 Surely you weren’t advising consulting a solicitor to confirm it would cost more than the invoice value to retain a solicitor.  I’m positive no-one would be that stupid…

As my services are provided free, I don't know much about eligibility for Legal Aid. Who would you ask about that?

Anyway, unless you have some sensible points to make, I would invite you to f*ck off and stop spamming this thread.

[Left Back]

12 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

FFS, you moron. I already said that Johnny's local TS department don't do civil law advice or representation. Otherwise I would send him there.

I'm over 100 miles away, so can't look at the documentation myself, and would not suggest he posts it on here. Without full details, I'm in no position to offer full professional advice. I don't even know who the pursuers are or the amount they are claiming!        

If you don't know that many solicitors offer an initial free 15 minutes, I'm not sure how I can convince you. Maybe you could google "free initial legal consultation scotland" and look at the first 20 pages or so of results.

In 15 minutes, a solicitor can give an initial opinion of the chances of success, and set out his fees. If he glances at the papers & thinks there's no chance of Johnny winning, he should say so. He would send Johnny away with that free advice in those circumstances.

If he thinks that Johnny would win, but wouldn't get his costs back, he would also send Johnny away with that free advice.

Yeah, yeah. My advice is rubbish. I'm amazed that my employers continue to have such a good opinion of me, after that devastating critique.

Maybe, just maybe, they've looked at my professional qualifications & experience instead of taking the word of a random poster on P'n'B.

As my services are provided free, I don't know much about eligibility for Legal Aid. Who would you ask about that?

Anyway, unless you have some sensible points to make, I would invite you to f*ck off and stop spamming this thread.

It amuses me to see you so rattled so while I thank you for your invitation I’ll ignore it and post on whatever thread I like.

Now despite your ever lengthening posts trying to justify yourself I notice that you’ve never claimed anything I said was incorrect or false.  I summarised your nonsense perfectly adequately and since then you’ve piped up with some more.

If you really were that much of an expert and wanted to stick your neck out I’m sure you could ask the OP to DM you the details/paperwork so you could work your legal magic.  You haven’t done that of course.  You’ve typed a load of waffle and given more contradictory advice and opinions to try and justify your claim to be an expert.