SANTAN Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Oh...now you are becoming a bit abusive because you have been cornered. No we won't move on. When Scotland elects a parliament that has a majority for a referendum, there should be a referendum. To deny that, is to deny democracy. Despite all the flowery rubbish you wrote. Perhaps across specific points in what I said rather than thos vague nonsense. Abusive? Get over yourself you wet wipe. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erih Shtrep Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 5 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: Your assessment is correct but I have never lost touch with reality, my reality is the imbalance I see economically in this so called union where the future will remain one sided , I only want my country to stand on it's own two feet as we have the resources and the people to be a respected nation among others of a similar size. For too long we blindly and obediently gave our blood and resources on battlefields, factories and shipyards to benefit another country's imperialistic wrongful ambitions. Blinded by my desire, maybe, but I have the vision to see my country Independent and Proud. And by nations of similar size it should be noted that Scotland is a medium sized country. Not this 'tenny-weeny twee' 'Best wee country in the world' garbage belittlers like Scottish Labour and the whole unionist bloc like to portray. In terms of area it's smaller than - France, Italy, Spain, Germany but larger than Serbia, Czech Republic, Croatia, Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, Holland, Belgium. You'd never fly into Prague, Amsterdam, or Brussels and be greeted with something like this: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Stormzy said: Perhaps across specific points in what I said rather than thos vague nonsense. Abusive? Get over yourself you wet wipe. I was specific. You clearly stated (in the faux chummy style of a pound shop Rees-Mogg) your belief that there should not be a second referendum..... even if the people of Scotland elect a pro independence parliament (again!!!). You also claim continual polling from a variety of respected sources showing independence as the clear and settled will of the Scottish people should just be ignored. There is no excuse for that. As I stated..... your position (and that of the British Nationalist parties in general) is unjustifiable and an affront to democracy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 21 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: I was specific. You clearly stated (in the faux chummy style of a pound shop Rees-Mogg) your belief that there should not be a second referendum..... even if the people of Scotland elect a pro independence parliament (again!!!). You also claim continual polling from a variety of respected sources showing independence as the clear and settled will of the Scottish people should just be ignored. There is no excuse for that. As I stated..... your position (and that of the British Nationalist parties in general) is unjustifiable and an affront to democracy. Nah, not having that at all. Show me from the words I've posted, not what you think I've posted. You're at it. Waffling on having a conversation with yourself here. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 On 12/02/2021 at 13:45, Dawson Park Boy said: Sandy- I’m sure you’re a nice chap but you’re so blinded by your desire for INDEPENDENCE that you’ve lost touch with reality. Persuasive argument. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: Nah, not having that at all. Show me from the words I've posted, not what you think I've posted. You're at it. Waffling on having a conversation with yourself here. This. Have you forgotten your post from yesterday so quickly? 21 hours ago, Stormzy said: Come on man, some people were just starting to warm to me then you have to go and ask me that... I don't personally see it as that bad, I understand why some people feel more strongly than me about it but I sincerely believe the 2014 referendum - leaving aside the "once in a generation" argument - should be respected, at least to a greater extent than it has been, I don't believe that Brexit in itself is a tangible enough reason to have another referendum, specifically because many people were aware that this could become an issue in 2014. I do think that the majority of people that say that Brexit is reason enough to have a referendum are all people that funnily enough want to have one in the first place anyway. I do agree in the fluidity of democracy and of course agree there should be a mechanism to express this change, of course if I believed the overwhelming majority of Scotland wanted Indy I would support a referendum on the spot, i think using polls and other types of barometers are quite rightly rejected by most sensible people as to being proof that there should be a referendum, I could also write an essay on why voting for the SNP does not indicate support for a referendum and why people shouldn't confuse the two. I appreciate this puts normal, democratic minded Indy fans in a bit of a tough spot and I sincerely empathise with their conundrum, it of course poses the question what could they do or what path can they take to achieving Indy under the grounds I've stated? As for now I can't see an obvious answer, hence the infighting within the party.. Now for the tasty part, I'll undoubtedly get laughed off the forum for this but in the absence of any proper mechanism or suggestions of how to gauge support for a second referendum I'd happily either; A. Have a referendum on having a referendum. B. Have a deal which agrees that if the SNP maintain majority support for the next 10 years whilst having Independence clearly stated in their manifestos then we can have another referendum. Also before everyone goes all heavy mental over my suggestion, from a position of power, I'd like anyone that's that outraged to firstly take it with a pinch of salt and secondly to provide an alternative credible mechanism for gauging support for Indy enough to have another referendum, discounting Twitter polls and anecdotal pish. Poll after poll carried out by numerous different professional polling companies has continually indicated Scotland wishes independence. Only a total rocket would deny the veracity of the polls as a barometer of Scottish opinion.....not "sensible people" as you hilariously put it. Scotland has repeatedly voted for parliaments who wish to implement a second referendum. When it does so (again) in May, any democrat would concede that a referendum there should be. Like I said previously, your post attempted to come up with excuses why democracy should not happen. Hence your nonsensical ramblings about having referendums to have a referendum and slaverings about parties having to have majorities for 10 years. Laughable. Just admit its because you are scared. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 24 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: This. Have you forgotten your post from yesterday so quickly? Poll after poll carried out by numerous different professional polling companies has continually indicated Scotland wishes independence. Only a total rocket would deny the veracity of the polls as a barometer of Scottish opinion.....not "sensible people" as you hilariously put it. Scotland has repeatedly voted for parliaments who wish to implement a second referendum. When it does so (again) in May, any democrat would concede that a referendum there should be. Like I said previously, your post attempted to come up with excuses why democracy should not happen. Hence your nonsensical ramblings about having referendums to have a referendum and slaverings about parties having to have majorities for 10 years. Laughable. Just admit its because you are scared. Only an absolute moon howler would think that polls should be used as a form of democratic decisions and replace actual elections and referendums.. Not at all, most sensible people agree you cant just continuously hold referendums there needs to be a better mechanism aside from local election results. As I've said before the whole "you're scared" tactic is only used by those with a primary school level of intelligence, unsurprising to see that being your main counter point to my salient points made. Edited February 13, 2021 by Stormzy -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 10 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: The Copenhagen Treaty clearly asks that a country applying for EU membership can demonstrate it can deal with market forces as part of it's Economic Policy. The Baltic states, Estonia for example, immediately prior to it's EU application ceased it's shared currency with the Russian Rouble and created it's own Central Bank with the KROON as it's currency, Estonia re-adopted the Kroon as it was the currency of Estonia, not because of anything to do with the EU. 10 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: demonstrated it's ability to 'deal with market forces independently', "economic criteria: a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces;" "Independently" doesn't appear anywhere in the criteria. You seem determined to "make stuff up" for some reason. 10 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: Scotland in it's EU application would have to follow the same application route in forming a Central Bank with a new currency, otherwise it would be impossible to demonstrate financial independence to the EU and conform to the Copenhagen Treaty if Scotland was sharing a currency with the Bank of England controlled by a non EU member. Again, there is no requirement to be financially independent. Stop being dishonest. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Only an absolute moon howler would think that polls should be used as a form of democratic decisions and replace actual elections and referendums.. That's the Natter Massive summed up in one sentence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Only an absolute moon howler would think that polls should be used as a form of democratic decisions and replace actual elections and referendums.. Not at all, most sensible people agree you cant just continuously hold referendums there needs to be a better mechanism aside from local election results. As I've said before the whole "you're scared" tactic is only used by those with a primary school level of intelligence, unsurprising to see that being your main counter point to my salient points made. Lol...No one suggested polls should be used to replace "actual elections and referendums" You made that up. They are however a very good indicator of public opinion, particularly when the same result is produced by poll company after poll company over a considerable length of time. You suggested that "sensible people" do not believe them to be proof that there should be referendum. Lol....who are these "sensible people" ? However I agree with you that an election is the best test of the Scottish public's opinion on the matter. But oh wait....u already ruled out the possibility that the winners should be able implement their manifesto should a pro independence majority parliament be elected. If you believe in democracy your current position is an abhorrence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erih Shtrep Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 https://www.aforceforgood.uk/single-post/moral-and-democratic-case?fbclid=IwAR1ePK-7u6WRRCY7iK8kpggW7EfKzWkFh_EDmv5a4b4cZ2Psb8rLjAxZTQ4 Always nice to get the holocaust deniers views on things constitutional. By his meaningless pish the SNP had a mandate in 2015 but not now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: That's the Natter Massive summed up in one sentence. Lol.......except he made the shite up. See above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: Lol.......except he made the shite up. See above. I did. Desperate posting from you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Just now, The_Kincardine said: I did. Desperate posting from you. This is poor..even for you -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: This is poor..even for you Eh? You were so ignorant as to use the phrase, "If you believe in democracy". No lack of self-awareness there then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 It was 2014 and I recall a debate in Eden Court and Nicky Marr, a local "personality" venturing what in her mind was the profound construct of two plebiscites. When she finished and despite what I expect was her expectation, there was silence in the room and although I had sympathy for her, I wondered just why she thought it was reasonable to overreach. For us in 2021 I look forward to the opportunity to consider a prospectus that is as manifestly robust as it will be our democratic foundation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Eh? You were so ignorant as to use the phrase, "If you believe in democracy". No lack of self-awareness there then Eh...you are rambling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, git-intae-thum said: Eh...you are rambling. Me? Rambling? You want the recent plebiscite rerun because you didn't like the result - yet bang on about democracy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said: Me? Rambling? You want the recent plebiscite rerun because you didn't like the result - yet bang on about democracy. Unfortunately for British nationalists democracy did not stop 7 years ago. Edited February 13, 2021 by git-intae-thum Typo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 minute ago, git-intae-thum said: Unfortunately for British nationalists democracy did not stop 7 years ago. Is this some sort of meaningless phrase you picked up along the way? How, exactly, does it relate to our conversation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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