NotThePars Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 George Monbiot is 50% decent takes and 50% an insufferable arsehole but he was on good form today fair play 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kejan Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Stormzy said: A random English chap = Political activist George Monbiot. Monica Lennon pushing the devo card again, I can't imagine she'll beat Sarwar but it could be interesting if she were to. She seems very sincere but perhaps too unpolished and too young. First time seeing Shona Robinson - absolute robotic crank, probably posts on here under several aliases. Madeline Grant is an absolute wid. Too young? She's probably if not older, the same age as Sarwar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 They say nothing like that at all. The stipulation is that any central bank is independent, not the currency.I’ll ask you what I asked@SandyCromartyWhere are these rules?Given that there’s clearly confusion over them it would be even more useful to see them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: I’ll ask you what I asked@SandyCromarty Where are these rules? Given that there’s clearly confusion over them it would be even more useful to see them It's not even a rule of accession, it's one of the acquis of membership. https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis_en The acquis in the area of economic and monetary policy contains specific rules requiring the independence of central banks in Member States, prohibiting direct financing of the public sector by the central banks and prohibiting privileged access of the public sector to financial institutions. Member States are expected to co-ordinate their economic policies and are subject to the Stability and Growth Pact on fiscal surveillance. New Member States are also committed to complying with the criteria laid down in the Treaty in order to be able to adopt the euro in due course after accession. Until then, they will participate in the Economic and Monetary Union as a Member State with a derogation from the use of the euro and shall treat their exchange rates as a matter of common concern. Not a word about independent currencies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 42 minutes ago, Kejan said: Too young? She's probably if not older, the same age as Sarwar. Fucking hell she's got 3 years on him. He must have had a tough paper round. I of course got that wrong, probably because I've been aware of Sarwar for a long time but only recently noticed Lennon. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, yoda said: There's literally no point in swapping monetary policy controlled by the BOE with monetary policy controlled by the ECB. I don't quite get why joining the Euro is such a popular idea on here - I've made my views on it clear before that I don't think it's as optimal as a new, free floating Scottish currency. Spend a fortune setting up a new currency - and everything that involves - only to chuck it after three years is a ridiculous idea too. You've got it wrong regarding an Independent Scotland having a new Scottish currency controlled by the EU, that would never be the case, the interim negotiating period of say 2-3 years with the UK government and awaiting our EU membership acceptance would see us with our own currency totally controlled by a Scottish Government. As for adopting the Euro I'm on the fence with that, presently there are eight EU countries using their own currency. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Sorry I clearly didn’t phrase the question clearly I should have said something along the lines of In what legislation, treaty or other document are the details of these rules laid out? I’d be interested in reading them. They sound significant As per the Mastricht Treaty there are five convergence criteria that any country applying for EU membership must comply with, all five require that country to manage and control their financial economy with prudence and within the guidelines as described in the criteria. Scotland could not fulfil any of these if tied into a pound sterling controlled by the Bank of England, england of course being a non EU member. Scotland would have to be seen managing it's economy efficiently and to achieve that the country would have to have it's own currency. The five criteria are easily accessible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 As per the Mastricht Treaty there are five convergence criteria that any country applying for EU membership must comply with, all five require that country to manage and control their financial economy with prudence and within the guidelines as described in the criteria. Scotland could not fulfil any of these if tied into a pound sterling controlled by the Bank of England, england of course being a non EU member. Scotland would have to be seen managing it's economy efficiently and to achieve that the country would have to have it's own currency. The five criteria are easily accessible.The convergence criteria are for joining the Euro, not for joining the EU. The criteria for joining the EU are the accession criteria."Accession criteria | European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement Negotiations" https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/glossary/terms/accession-criteria_en 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 34 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said: As per the Mastricht Treaty there are five convergence criteria that any country applying for EU membership must comply with, all five require that country to manage and control their financial economy with prudence and within the guidelines as described in the criteria. I'm looking at the Maastricht treaty now and can't see them but it is a very long document. Could you give me the Chapter at least Or maybe you're getting muddled up with the treaty of Rome? (Although I couldn't see it in there either.) To be fair I've been looking by searching the text for likely key words and phrases as opposed to reading several hundred pages of text so this might well be my fault 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: The convergence criteria are for joining the Euro, not for joining the EU. The criteria for joining the EU are the accession criteria. "Accession criteria | European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement Negotiations" https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/glossary/terms/accession-criteria_en Thank you That clears things up nicely 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: As per the Mastricht Treaty there are five convergence criteria that any country applying for EU membership must comply with, all five require that country to manage and control their financial economy with prudence and within the guidelines as described in the criteria. Scotland could not fulfil any of these if tied into a pound sterling controlled by the Bank of England, england of course being a non EU member. Scotland would have to be seen managing it's economy efficiently and to achieve that the country would have to have it's own currency. The five criteria are easily accessible. Sandy- I’m sure you’re a nice chap but you’re so blinded by your desire for INDEPENDENCE that you’ve lost touch with reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: You've got it wrong regarding an Independent Scotland having a new Scottish currency controlled by the EU, that would never be the case, the interim negotiating period of say 2-3 years with the UK government and awaiting our EU membership acceptance would see us with our own currency totally controlled by a Scottish Government. As for adopting the Euro I'm on the fence with that, presently there are eight EU countries using their own currency. What's this waiting acceptance? - we are constantly being told that we would be straight back into the club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 16 hours ago, Stormzy said: Fucking hell she's got 3 years on him. He must have had a tough paper round. I of course got that wrong, probably because I've been aware of Sarwar for a long time but only recently noticed Lennon. I would have guessed Sarwar was older as well tbh. Probably, like you say, because he seems to have been around for ages, whilst achieving absolutely nothing. He only became an MP in 2010 as well. Mind you, politically, that feels about 100 years ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: The convergence criteria are for joining the Euro, not for joining the EU. The criteria for joining the EU are the accession criteria. "Accession criteria | European Neighbourhood Policy And Enlargement Negotiations" https://ec.europa.eu/neighbourhood-enlargement/policy/glossary/terms/accession-criteria_en Correct I was wrong in quoting the Mastricht Treaty when as you clearly point out EU membership acceptance criteria is defined in the Copenhagen Treaty where countries applying have to cope with market forces etc as part of their economic policy, something we cannot do tied into a currency union with the uk government. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/01/quiet-collapse-scottish-unionism?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB Decent article in The New Statesman. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said: Correct I was wrong in quoting the Mastricht Treaty when as you clearly point out EU membership acceptance criteria is defined in the Copenhagen Treaty where countries applying have to cope with market forces etc as part of their economic policy, something we cannot do tied into a currency union with the uk government. Please explain why a shared currency (for example, the Euro) means that the countries involved cannot deal with market forces. Edited February 12, 2021 by Baxter Parp 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Probably more Unionist posters in here for a long time. Also if you just perhaps read the last page of the thread you'll see some Indy supporters a tad dismayed..If the Tories were as confident as you there would be a referendum tomorrow. Why do you think they aren't 'allowing' us to have one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 14 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said: If the Tories were as confident as you there would be a referendum tomorrow. Why do you think they aren't 'allowing' us to have one? A multitude of reasons, even if they're confident it's still a high risk strategy in comparison to not having one when they clearly feel they can adequately explain away the reasons behind not having one. If SNP go for some rogue referendum without backing from Westminster then they develop a scenario that doesn't favour them imo, it just wouldn't look good and I dont think the SNP want that however at this stage Westminster clearly think their stance is secure and would be happy relativley speaking if the SNP went for this approach. It makes sense. Lastly I think the tactic of saying "you're too scared" is beyond infantile, it doesn't even really work on any level other than an argument in the playground in primary school... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Stinky Bone said: Still comes down to this. Unless we assert the competency of the Scottish parliament we will never see Independence. Well if that's the case, let's do it after the May elections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Elric said: What's this waiting acceptance? - we are constantly being told that we would be straight back into the club. Our exact relationship with the EU will be a decision for the Scottish government and our people post independence. The point is it will be our decision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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