When will indyref2 happen?

[BFTD]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

And it would receive zero International recognition, like the Catalan one. If it's a lawful and binding referendum within the constitution then boycott away, of course.

Well, that's the tricky bit, isn't it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

H_B having a mare as ever.

He should just f**k off to Russia.

[Zern]

8 hours ago, BFTD said:

It allows the Westminster government to say that the vote is meaningless because unionists didn't take part, and the turnout was so low. Which is exactly what they'll do.

It's going to take more than just holding another referendum for independence to happen.

Referendum is just one part of the process of course but non-participation doesn't work if the the legality has been upheld. It only enhances the result for Yes, which isn't a bad thing imo.

It makes the political pressure from a majority result more acute, visible and a difficult to dismiss as it is now a matter of public record.

[Wee-Bey]

 

[razamanaz]

Allegedly the photo on the front of the white paper is a wind farm in Yorkshire? Strange and weird

[Albus Bulbasaur]

2 hours ago, Ervin H Burrell said:

 

Superb read. 

Sensibly covered pretty much every essential point. 

My two stand out lines.

"They have been told the firing gun has been shot, but left on a battleground with nothing but the remnants of the last war they lost. "

"You’ll also miss out on the circular economy built around the independence Groundhog Day."

[effeffsee_the2nd]

21 hours ago, welshbairn said:

And it would receive zero International recognition, like the Catalan one. If it's a lawful and binding referendum within the constitution then boycott away, of course.

This is 100% the situation we are in,  no formal legally binding referendum but the SNP decide f**k it we'll have one anyway = union parties boycott the vote, Yes win with 85 % on a 40 % turn out and it ends up in a farce like Catalonia, No one would recognize us internationally if we tried to declare. 

The fact that no legal referendum will be permitted is the only reason sturgeon is even talking about one.  There's a lot of numpties in the party membership who are demanding one now who have to be appeased, but to even be thinking about calling a serious one, you'd have to have support consistently polling higher than 60 % which we are nowhere near. Even a narrow win wouldn't do, it would only result in a brexit style farce with such a chunk of the electorate unhappy.

By calling a vote knowing it won't go ahead she can appease the numpties whilst claiming her hands are tied. only danger is if more patient indy supporters get fed up with the cycle and vote for somebody else or lose interest altogether.  

[carpetmonster]

 

[Dan Steele]

Nice irony having Murdo, the serial loser, talk about all the things UK will lose. "Lose" ffs, the imperial mindset lives on.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Shocked and astounded nobody wants to discuss the Twitter link Ervin posted. 

[Duries Air Freshener]

4 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Shocked and astounded nobody wants to discuss the Twitter link Ervin posted. 

I read the whole article.. bit of an eye opener.

Shafi is a clever guy and spot on in many respects.

[Salt n Vinegar]

21 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Shocked and astounded nobody wants to discuss the Twitter link Ervin posted. 

Shocked and astounded that Fraser keeps using "we" when saying "we" would lose... 

Presumably the "we" he refers to for the most part would be rUK. It seems tobe a case of 'f Scotland, look at what "we" would lose - land, energy, territorial waters, fish". 

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said:

Shocked and astounded that Fraser keeps using "we" when saying "we" would lose... 

Presumably the "we" he refers to for the most part would be rUK. It seems tobe a case of 'f Scotland, look at what "we" would lose - land, energy, territorial waters, fish". 

You're looking at the wrong tweet. 

Sometimes embedded tweets shows as others, perhaps refresh your screen, the tweet is a link to a breakdown of the state of play from an Indy supporter who's laid his position out very clearly and methodically, not Murdo Fraser sound bites from Twitter...  

[Kenneth840]

On 17/06/2022 at 00:11, Zern said:

That's not every year is it?

They were promising one for 2020. That got derailed by COVID. They said they would shelve it until we were through.

Which we are.

Question is, for those who disagree with even having a referendum, unless UK tells you it is ok, is what happens if it is ruled legal by the courts but is still opposed by the UK government.

Boycott or participate?

The covid lockdown was the perfect time to do online campaigning.  We could have been working out the answers to the questions that many have, instead we were told that the independence campaign was on hold. 

On 17/06/2022 at 10:47, Albus Bulbasaur said:

It's 2022 ffs surely people can have sex with the flag that they want.

No. It depends on whether it has a spectrum of colour. 

5 hours ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

Superb read. 

Sensibly covered pretty much every essential point. 

My two stand out lines.

"They have been told the firing gun has been shot, but left on a battleground with nothing but the remnants of the last war they lost. "

"You’ll also miss out on the circular economy built around the independence Groundhog Day."

This is how I feel.  I feel that the Yes movement is about to repeat the mistakes of 2014. If there is some secret plan, then surely to f**k let the door knockers know. 

5 hours ago, effeffsee_the2nd said:

This is 100% the situation we are in,  no formal legally binding referendum but the SNP decide f**k it we'll have one anyway = union parties boycott the vote, Yes win with 85 % on a 40 % turn out and it ends up in a farce like Catalonia, No one would recognize us internationally if we tried to declare. 

The fact that no legal referendum will be permitted is the only reason sturgeon is even talking about one.  There's a lot of numpties in the party membership who are demanding one now who have to be appeased, but to even be thinking about calling a serious one, you'd have to have support consistently polling higher than 60 % which we are nowhere near. Even a narrow win wouldn't do, it would only result in a brexit style farce with such a chunk of the electorate unhappy.

By calling a vote knowing it won't go ahead she can appease the numpties whilst claiming her hands are tied. only danger is if more patient indy supporters get fed up with the cycle and vote for somebody else or lose interest altogether.  

We can have a referendum if we choose to.  The problem is that most Scots think that they are different to other nations. I guess you know that all referendums are advisory, the brexit one was only enforced (right word?) because it was the view of a majority.  As I type this I cannot remember the exact number/percentage brexit vote.  

This is why I prefer the plebiscite election vote.  ALL independence parties stand on a mandate of declaring independence if there is a majority elected to government.  Yes it is UDI.  What else is a declaration of independence.  BFTD, we are going to have to unilaterally declare independence at some point! There has to be confrontation with the British state if we are to be independent.  

My thinking is Nicola Sturgeon is doing this because she/her/it needs to be showing to do something to satisfy her core voters.  But she has forgotten many of them are women and wont accept the GRA reform. It will cost us dear. 

1 hour ago, Snafu said:

Last chance for Independence?

When did it become last chance?

Surely in 25 years another chance will come along.

Should they not mean last chance to see Independence in our life time, jeez you'd think the world revolves around certain people of a certain age?

 

I think that if the referendum 2023 goes ahead, it will kill it for years.  We have not prepared for it.  Neither has the SNP, this shows with their rushed through brochure. 

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Kenneth840 said:

I think that if the referendum 2023 goes ahead, it will kill it for years.  We have not prepared for it.  Neither has the SNP, this shows with their rushed through brochure. 

It's just the first in a series, the meat will come later on.

[Zern]

They've even made sure to budget for what is coming.

[BFTD]

Kenneth, you ready to admit that you think violent protest is the way to independence?

Just curious, as you dodged admitting your position on UDI and genitals for months, and I'd like to know if I'm three-for-three here.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

1 hour ago, welshbairn said:

It's just the first in a series, the meat will come later on.

When's the meat coming? Have they set out a time frame for the detail coming out? 

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, Albus Bulbasaur said:

When's the meat coming? Have they set out a time frame for the detail coming out? 

Nope, just over the next few months. Tactically I think it's quite astute, gives the SNP some control over the media and political agenda, instead of a big white paper to defend on multiple points simultaneously. It also allows voters to digest and evaluate each part on its own merits rather a big jumble of issues usually chosen by the opposition, in the media and politics.

Edited June 18, 2022 by welshbairn

[Zern]

It also brings new media focus for every paper being announced, sustaining the conversation over the referendum and independence in general.