When will indyref2 happen?

[Baxter Parp]

2 hours ago, kirkyblue2 said:

Exactly, so why rejoin it?

you've talked enough shite to make me give up, well done.

[RedRob72]

Yes, you point that out every time you resort to straw-clutching. Unfortunately, it rarely answers the question, and smacks instead of an admission that 2014 is all you cleave to. I'll ask again why independence under the SNP (even for the short term) elected by the Scottish electorate should be worrisome, but dependence under the Tories (which looks to be long term) rejected by the Scottish electorate is not. 

 

'It rarely answers the question' what does that even mean?The Ref result was decisive, the appetite for another shot at independence is of course still seductive amongst separatists, just not the rest of us. I'm ok with the way things are, seems to be the view of the majority in Scotland for the time being also. I understand how frustrating that must be for you.

I do not want an iScotland led by the SNP, is that so hard for you to accept and understand even if you disagree personally?

 

 

[Alan Stubbs]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Blimey. Thanks for making my point for me.

Ahem.

17 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The negativity up here is getting to the point that I am actually considering moving back down south again for the sake of my sanity. You just cannot get anything done. Ambition is shot down and ridiculed. Wanting to better yourself makes you a "fucking Tory". I am just about done with it.

 

16 hours ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Please do explain though how it is that you "just cannot get anything done" up here? Who is getting in your way exactly?

Come on now, I'm actually interested. Have some convictions and actually back up your own words.

[kirkyblue2]

2 hours ago, Baxter Parp said:

you've talked enough shite to make me give up, well done.

Stick to posting links.

Edited February 14, 2017 by kirkyblue2
Looks better

[Alan Stubbs]

I'd say there 100% is something to be said for Scotland having a negativity about it

I see that changing though. The devolution generations seem like a pretty optimistic, outward looking and progressive bunch to me. National identity wise people seem comfortable in their own skin as well without any interest in the twee Edinburgh Tattoo shite that older 'proud Scots' lap up; nor the stamping down  type of intolerance ("Polish people can gtf") that seems to constitute 'patriotism' in other parts of the world right now. It's hard to imagine the folk I'm talking about sharing a planet, never mind a country (in the former's part anyway) with the miserable, bitter old Oaksoft/McSpreader types. I wouldn't say that divide is a uniquely Yes/No thing because the Yes/SNP crowd definitely has some throwing rocks at the sun mega-roasters in their ranks as well. We're definitely a polarised bunch up here though. Too much so to describe a singular 'psyche',

I'd say Britain as a whole has even more contradictory vibes coming out of it just now. On one hand, British people and output is practically talking over film, television and to an extent music. There's a bit of a cool Brittania mk2 thing going on and culturally it seems like a dynamic, diverse and attractive place. The other side of what Britian is putting out into the world is about it being a regressive, isolationist laughing stock.

[AUFC90]

42 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

'It rarely answers the question' what does that even mean?The Ref result was decisive, the appetite for another shot at independence is of course still seductive amongst separatists, just not the rest of us. I'm ok with the way things are, seems to be the view of the majority in Scotland for the time being also. I understand how frustrating that must be for you.

I do not want an iScotland led by the SNP, is that so hard for you to accept and understand even if you disagree personally?

 

 

You don't want an i Scotland full stop regardless of the party and even regardless of whether it's proven to be the best thing for Scotland. You've already admitted this, you'll never vote yes because of history, family connections etc, which is fine. I've no problem with you being an no voter for emotional, british nationalist reasons but don't try and pretend that politics, parties or policies have even the slightest bearing on your stance.

[McSpreader]

15 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

I lived in the South-East for almost a decade. Hammer Jag's assessment is absolutely spot-on for me.

Anyway, what tremendous entertainment McSpreader and Oaksoft provide on the Politics board. I presume you don't pick the former up on his spelling and grammar due to the amount of work required?  

What ? !!! My grammar and spelling is all but flawless......I challenge you !

[RedRob72]

You don't want an i Scotland full stop regardless of the party and even regardless of whether it's proven to be the best thing for Scotland. You've already admitted this, you'll never vote yes because of history, family connections etc, which is fine. I've no problem with you being an no voter for emotional, british nationalist reasons but don't try and pretend that politics, parties or policies have even the slightest bearing on your stance.

Yes it would be difficult to envisage Scotland leaving the Union, but I'm not so blind to the possibility of it actually happening. What then for millions of Scots? We try and make it work, it's a simple as that.
I don't see a mass exodus of Unionist Scots saying 'f*ck this we're off'!
We have too much invested in Scotland to just pack up and leave you to it, whoever is in pole position at Holyrood.

[McSpreader]

12 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

I'd say there 100% is something to be said for Scotland having a negativity about it

I see that changing though. The devolution generations seem like a pretty optimistic, outward looking and progressive bunch to me. National identity wise people seem comfortable in their own skin as well without any interest in the twee Edinburgh Tattoo shite that older 'proud Scots' lap up; nor the stamping down  type of intolerance ("Polish people can gtf") that seems to constitute 'patriotism' in other parts of the world right now. It's hard to imagine the folk I'm talking about sharing a planet, never mind a country (in the former's part anyway) with the miserable, bitter old Oaksoft/McSpreader types. I wouldn't say that divide is a uniquely Yes/No thing because the Yes/SNP crowd definitely has some throwing rocks at the sun mega-roasters in their ranks as well. We're definitely a polarised bunch up here though. Too much so to describe a singular 'psyche',

I'd say Britain as a whole has even more contradictory vibes coming out of it just now. On one hand, British people and output is practically talking over film, television and to an extent music. There's a bit of a cool Brittania mk2 thing going on and culturally it seems like a dynamic, diverse and attractive place. The other side of what Britian is putting out into the world is about it being a regressive, isolationist laughing stock.

When have I ever shown any  misery or bitterness. That's just you applying your prejudice against me before actually analysing my comments.

The Polish can gtf comment has been conveniently taken out of context because it was about Polish nationals living in Poland influencing Scottish politics, but I forgive you for that as I can see how you must struggle to find anything in my posts to easily confirm your prejudice. You can have a great big love-in with as many Poland residing Poles as you feel capable of accommodating but that does not give them the right to influence Scottish politics. In fact, on that subject, they can gtf!

The truth about rUK is so far removed from the picture that is attempted at being portrayed on here I could laugh if it weren't such a travesty. The English are far more inclusive and tolerant than we give them credit for. The numbers of non-English born or of non-English heritage peoples in England is far , far greater and has been so for far, far longer than anything we've seen up here.  In all my time in England and Wales I saw fantastic integration and common cultural homogeneity.

That comment about regressive, isolationism sums up everything that is wrong with your attitude and your understanding of what is really happening in rUK because that sort of comment is just  disingenuous SNP propaganda that misrepresents the truth and does you ,personally, no favours....Don't be that  ignorant person!

[Alan Stubbs]

3 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

When have I ever shown any  misery or bitterness. That's just you applying your prejudice against me before actually analysing my comments.

The Polish can gtf comment has been conveniently taken out of context because it was about Polish nationals living in Poland influencing Scottish politics, but I forgive you for that as I can see how you must struggle to find anything in my posts to easily confirm your prejudice. You can have a great big love-in with as many Poland residing Poles as you feel capable of accommodating but that does not give them the right to influence Scottish politics. In fact, on that subject, they can gtf!

The truth about rUK is so far removed from the picture that is attempted at being portrayed on here I could laugh if it weren't such a travesty. The English are far more inclusive and tolerant than we give them credit for. The numbers of non-English born or of non-English heritage peoples in England is far , far greater and has been so for far, far longer than anything we've seen up here.  In all my time in England and Wales I saw fantastic integration and common cultural homogeneity.

That comment about regressive, isolationism sums up everything that is wrong with your attitude and your understanding of what is really happening in rUK because that sort of comment is just  disingenuous SNP propaganda that misrepresents the truth and does you ,personally, no favours....Don't be that  ignorant person!

Aye "Who gives a flying f**k what Polish folk think?...they can gtf" is a highly salient bit of political punditry when the correct context is applied Behave yourself. You came on here jaked and dropped your guard.

Yep, much of England is extremely inclusive and tolerant. As I just said, in many ways Britain (of which England is naturally a proportionally big percentage of) has a lot going for it at the moment. It's diversity being one of the things that people find appealing.

The comment about regressive, isolationism is not just "SNP propoganda". It's yourself that is living in a bubble, as you often accuse others, if you think that's the case. My comment was specifically about how the rest of the world sees Britain. If you've been paying even the slightest bit of attention to international news/current affairs, Brexit is constantly talked about in direct relation to Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and the various populist, proudly "illiberal" strongmen in Central and Eastern Europe. Politically speaking, Britian/England is gaining admirers of a regressive, isolationsist hue from all over, whilst everyone else is far from impressed.

[McSpreader]

16 minutes ago, Alan Stubbs said:

Aye "Who gives a flying f**k what Polish folk think?...they can gtf" is a highly salient bit of political punditry when the correct context is applied Behave yourself. You came on here jaked and dropped your guard.

Yep, much of England is extremely inclusive and tolerant. As I just said, in many ways Britain (of which England is naturally a proportionally big percentage of) has a lot going for it at the moment. It's diversity being one of the things that people find appealing.

The comment about regressive, isolationism is not just "SNP propoganda". It's yourself that is living in a bubble, as you often accuse others, if you think that's the case. My comment was specifically about how the rest of the world sees Britain. If you've been paying even the slightest bit of attention to international news/current affairs, Brexit is constantly talked about in direct relation to Trump, Le Pen, Wilders and the various populist, proudly "illiberal" strongmen in Central and Eastern Europe. Politically speaking, Britian/England is gaining admirers of a regressive, isolationsist hue from all over, whilst everyone else is far from impressed.

There's no guard to drop, your criticism of the comment is not relevant to it's context , but that's fine. I've learned it's what the un-liberal left does on here.

Again, you worry about what other nations' think when , the truth is, it's just a political stance, rather than any genuine evaluation of the situation, just as the Remain  lies predicting economic meltdown immediately following Brexit were lies allied to their political agenda.

The Uk is following it's own path and what Trump, Wilders and Le Pen do in their countries is not a part of what we do here. The very fact there has been Brexit and Trump and the rise of the illeberals in Europe must tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong across The Western Political hemisphere. Burying your head in the sand and attempting to display your virtuosity so you can feel good about yourself helps no-one.

[AUFC90]

1 hour ago, RedRob72 said:

Yes it would be difficult to envisage Scotland leaving the Union, but I'm not so blind to the possibility of it actually happening. What then for millions of Scots? We try and make it work, it's a simple as that.
I don't see a mass exodus of Unionist Scots saying 'f*ck this we're off'!
We have too much invested in Scotland to just pack up and leave you to it, whoever is in pole position at Holyrood.

I wouldn't want a mass exodus of unionist Scots as they are Scots at the end of the day and will contribute to making a success of an independent Scotland. There wont be anyway. My point was that the SNP and political policies have absolutely nothing to do with why you'll ALWAYS vote no.

[Alan Stubbs]

1 minute ago, McSpreader said:

There's no guard to drop, your criticism of the comment is not relevant to it's context , but that's fine. I've learned it's what the un-liberal left does on here.

Again, you worry about what other nations' think when , the truth is, it's just a political stance, rather than any genuine evaluation of the situation, just as the Remain  lies predicting economic meltdown immediately following Brexit were lies allied to their political agenda.

The Uk is following it's own path and what Trump, Wilders and Le Pen do in their countries is not a part of what we do here. The very fact there has been Brexit and Trump and the rise of the illeberals in Europe must tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong across The Western Political hemisphere. Burying your head in the sand and attempting to display your virtuosity so you can feel good about yourself helps no-one.

The context doesn't save the minter of your comment. 'Polish people can gtf' isn't any worse than 'Polish people can get to f**k from having their say in the politics of Scotland'. If Scotland's your home, you have a say whether you're Scottish, Polish or Welsh. Quite right as well.

Quote

Again, you worry about what other nations' think

Nope. I'm not remotely "worried" what other nations think of Britain. The subject was Scotland's collective mentality, which posters including yourself brought England into. I've said my piece on the polarised, antithetical characteristics within both countries. They're fair observations I think, I didn't say I'm not going to lose sleep over them.

Quote

The very fact there has been Brexit and Trump and the rise of the illeberals in Europe must tell you that there is something fundamentally wrong across The Western Political hemisphere.

Yep. There's all kinds of things wrong. Regional inequality probably being top of my list in the case of Brexit and Trump. Whether it's the "rust belt" or the Midlands/North, people are pissed off. I don't think the answers they're turning to will work out very well for them unfortunately.

Quote

Burying your head in the sand and attempting to display your virtuosity so you can feel good about yourself helps no-one

Ah the old virtue signalling line. What a cop out.

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You could have saved us several pages of tripe on this thread by simply saying that in the first place rather than dishing out personal abuse.

Anyone who doesn't see the problem with our cultural attitude up here is IMO deluded.

Still no example of who's holding you back then? Ah well.

Unless your next post is supposed to address that and it's the M8 and paper timetables that has cost you success in life. Us ambitious folk just can't catch a break eh.

[AUFC90]

10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Examples of the type of mediocrity absolutely endemic throughout Scottish society:-

1) Schools crammed full of teachers who, rather than commit to improving how they teach, simply respond to improvement targets by teaching to the test. People denying that this is a massive problem are a disgrace.

2) University students happy to settle for the obligatory and wholly mediocre 2:1 having spent 4 or 5 years displaying absolutely no passion for anything other than sinking gallons of beer at every opportunity.

3) The major arterial road linking Edinburgh and Glasgow is STILL only two fucking lanes.

4) No direct rail links between Fife and Glasgow requiring every man and his dog to go via Edinburgh which causes that whole region to clog up.

5) Brand new school buildings built at huge cost to the public purse some of which are already partially falling down because nobody who built them could give two fucks other than doing the job on the cheap.

6) Almost no dedicated cycle lanes anywhere allowing clear delineation between traffic, bikes and pedestrians rendering cities gridlocked at peak hours.

7) Local bus services which don't go to enough places and unbelievably in 2017 STILL have no digital timetables at each stop.

That's just for starters.

Where are our global entrepeneurs? Where are the great engineer and science innovations? Dubai is road testing personal transport drones, Japan has bullet trains, Holland is absolutely covered in cycle lanes and meanwhile we can't even get trains to run on time or get buses to run properly on a fucking Sunday and most of our country still has either shit mobile phone reception to say nothing about the dreadful broadband coverage. Where are the Scottish pharmaceutical companies? The Scottish tech firms blowing the world away with our ingenuity? Grand Theft Auto? Seriously? Is that the best we can do? Where is the diversity in our business world? We manufacture almost nothing, we can't even manage to feed ourselves. Our care home system is in disarray with countless stories of neglect and abuse of our most vulnerable people. We will allow crap teachers to cling onto their jobs seemingly regardless of their ability causing a cycle of devastation to the educational needs of our kids. A generation of kids who are obsessed with themselves to the exclusion of everything and everyone else: the Biscuit generation - well named apply the slightest pressure on them and they crumble. The list is endless.

Scotland needs a bolt straight up the arse if we are to do more than simply survive independence. We need a re-energisation of all our society to thrive. And I am not confident we have enough people prepared to do what is needed.

Now THAT was a genuine rant.

I feel better now.

WOW , so much bitterness from a person that i'm willing to bet can barely complete an HND never mind a 2;1 honours. None of that pish stained rant backed anything up from your earlier rants. The only place in the UK with outstanding infrastructure is in a tiny bubble in the south east of the UK. The same area that coincidentally has a MUCH higher spend per person on infrastructure than anywhere else. That must tell you something. You make out that Scotland is so terrible but there's literally vast swathes of England that have been left behind and are GENUINE hopeless shiteholes, one the big factors in these forgotten areas voting to leave the EU. Like I say if it's that bad then f**k off to somewhere nice like Sunderland, Hull, Preston, Middlesbrough, Sheffield, Hartlepool, Blackpool.........take your pick, im sure you'll find inner peace there.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

[Alan Stubbs]

I'd say point 5 is semi-relevant tbf. The PFI schools thing perfectly sums up the sort of myopic diddyism that does Britain no favours. Don't see it as a reason to keep things the same though.

Selfie taking kids and mobile phone reception as factors in Scotland's viability as an independent country. Deary me, give us a break.

[welshbairn]

Not sure if I'm going to be able to cope anymore without digital timetables at bus stops. Probably because I only got a 2:2.

Edited February 14, 2017 by welshbairn

[RedRob72]

I wouldn't want a mass exodus of unionist Scots as they are Scots at the end of the day and will contribute to making a success of an independent Scotland. There wont be anyway. My point was that the SNP and political policies have absolutely nothing to do with why you'll ALWAYS vote no.

Aye, a lost cause perhaps, that doesn't mean I would want iScotland to fail if indeed a 2nd Ref went that way.
I'm not sure that would be reciprocated however in the event of a repeat No vote.

[RedRob72]

Not sure if I'm going to be able to cope anymore without digital timetables at bus stops. Probably because I only got a 2:2.

You had a good time at Uni then WB?[emoji6]

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

You had a good time at Uni then WB?

I wasn't there very much tbh.