When will indyref2 happen?

[Wee Bully]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Top doctor says 'no way the Scottish NHS can survive', with calls for 'the Scottish government to take action having fallen on deaf ears'. Indeed NHS may be 'dead already'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64101348

All Westminster's fault, and can only be sorted out by Independence though.

If only there was a part of the UK where Labour are in power, so we can compare.

If independence isn’t the answer, what would you do differently?

[BFTD]

22 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

Brits could stop demanding and expecting a top tier health service while resolutely refusing to pay for a top tier health service, just for starters.

We could also pay nurses more than a pittance so that some people might actually want to become nurses, rather than falling over in hysterics at the suggestion.

Dunno. Just throwing that out there.

Yeah, that's essentially what it comes down to.

A substantial percentage of the electorate appear to have realised they've made a net loss over the past decade-plus, but will likely continue to self-harm if it means that other groups are hurt worse. We get what we vote for.

[Guest Jedi]

17 hours ago, Brother Blades said:

SNP BAAAADD! 

Of course, that's all that matters from that article..or that the NHS is also struggling in other parts of the UK.

I know the SNP's record in govt is irrelevant and that there is nothing they can do about the NHS without Independence, but still   

Edited December 29, 2022 by Jedi

[Guest Jedi]

16 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

If only there was a part of the UK where Labour are in power, so we can compare.

If independence isn’t the answer, what would you do differently?

Do you believe the Scot govt could 'do anything' differently or are they simply hamstrung by being in the UK? (The same measure would of course apply to the Welsh Labour administration, but funnily enough, when it's in Wales, it's Labour's mismanagement, when it's in Scotland, it's Westminster's)

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Of course, that's all that matters from.tgat article..or that the NHS is also struggling in other parts of the UK.

I know the SNP's record in govt is irrelevant and that there is nothing they can do about the NHS without Independence, but still   

Well the UK has made quite clear that devolution is a snow job, and it can and will simply veto whatever it doesn’t like, “devolved” or otherwise.

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Do you believe the Scot govt could 'do anything' differently or are they simply hamstrung by being in the UK? (The same measure would of course apply to the Welsh Labour administration, but funnily enough, when it's in Wales, it's Labour's mismanagement, when it's in Scotland, it's Westminster's)

That’s pretty much the question he asked you - why answer it with the same question?

[Guest Jedi]

Scot govt budget: around £70 billion 

Cost of settling the nurses pay dispute...around £750 million.

 

[Guest Jedi]

1 minute ago, Antlion said:

That’s pretty much the question he asked you - why answer it with the same question?

What would I propose the Scot govt does differently? To answer the question, given that other folks answer on the NHS is simply 'Independence'?

Take 750 million out of a £70 billion budget and settle the nurses pay dispute.

Provide better funding to GPS surgeries and look at ways in which to manage the pressure on surgeries.

Sit down with health providers in other European countries to look at their models and learn from what they seem to be able to do better.

Better manage cancer waiting times as a priority.

Have a proper public awareness campaign of better health choices rather than tinkering around the edges with it.

 

[Antlion]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

What would I propose the Scot govt does differently? To answer the question, given that other folks answer on the NHS is simply 'Independence'?

Take 750 million out of a £70 billion budget and settle the nurses pay dispute.

Provide better funding to GPS surgeries and look at ways in which to manage the pressure on surgeries.

Sit down with health providers in other European countries to look at their models and learn from what they seem to be able to do better.

Better manage cancer waiting times as a priority.

Have a proper public awareness campaign of better health choices rather than tinkering around the edges with it.

 

Aside from the fact these are all variations on the woolly “just do things better”, the one in bold stands out: which European countries are similarly “devolved” and budgeted and thus can have any and every decision vetoed?

[Guest Jedi]

8 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Aside from the fact these are all variations on the woolly “just do things better”, the one in bold stands out: which European countries are similarly “devolved” and budgeted and thus can have any and every decision vetoed?

How many decisions made in devolved areas (which is most of them) have been vetoed by the UK govt in the past 25 years?

Paying nurses properly with a small proportion of the budget is 'wooly' and just vague doing things 'better'. Really?

Edited December 29, 2022 by Jedi

[Wee Bully]

11 minutes ago, Jedi said:

What would I propose the Scot govt does differently? To answer the question, given that other folks answer on the NHS is simply 'Independence'?

Take 750 million out of a £70 billion budget and settle the nurses pay dispute.

Provide better funding to GPS surgeries and look at ways in which to manage the pressure on surgeries.

Sit down with health providers in other European countries to look at their models and learn from what they seem to be able to do better.

Better manage cancer waiting times as a priority.

Have a proper public awareness campaign of better health choices rather than tinkering around the edges with it.

 

Given the £70bn can’t be varied, what £750million are you cutting from elsewhere?

[Guest Jedi]

1 minute ago, Wee Bully said:

Given the £70bn can’t be varied, what £750million are you cutting from elsewhere?

Ah, the National has its work done successfully...why is it about cutting? Its about prioritising.

[Wee Bully]

14 minutes ago, Jedi said:

What would I propose the Scot govt does differently? To answer the question, given that other folks answer on the NHS is simply 'Independence'?

Take 750 million out of a £70 billion budget and settle the nurses pay dispute.

Provide better funding to GPS surgeries and look at ways in which to manage the pressure on surgeries.

Sit down with health providers in other European countries to look at their models and learn from what they seem to be able to do better.

Better manage cancer waiting times as a priority.

Have a proper public awareness campaign of better health choices rather than tinkering around the edges with it.

 

Oh, and what £70bn budget does the Scottish Government have?  Where did you pluck that number from?

[Antlion]

Just now, Jedi said:

How many decisions made in devolved areas (which is most of them) have been vetoed by the UK govt in the past 25 years?

None - because the Scottish Government has historically toed the line, acting within its budget and not rocking the boat in terms of policy. That doesn’t guarantee the UK won’t simply veto, as it legally can and has recently said it might - but it’s still a straitjacket.

[Wee Bully]

1 minute ago, Jedi said:

Ah, the National has its work done successfully...why is it about cutting? Its about prioritising.

What £750 million are you deprioritising?

[Antlion]

3 minutes ago, Jedi said:

 

Paying nurses properly with a small proportion of the budget is 'wooly' and just vague doing things 'better'. Really?

“How would you do things differently?”

”By doing them better.”

”And how would you do them better?”

”By doing them differently.”

Still no explanation as to why you want an apple to sit down with and learn how it can be more like an orange, incidentally.

[Salt n Vinegar]

I can't be certain, but I do think that if aspects of drug policy were to be devolved, Scotland would treat it more as a health issue than a crime issue. 

Westminster's refusal to contemplate 'allowing' Scotland to try out drug consumption rooms seems odd. Folk say that the Scottish Government's record on drugs is really bad - which it is.  Why not focus on treating it as a health issue, rather than a crime issue? One might have thought that an alternative approach might be worth trying, but it's as obvious an example of reserved powers not necessarily being in Scotland's interests as you could look at. 

[Suspect Device]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

Of course, that's all that matters from that article..or that the NHS is also struggling in other parts of the UK.

I know the SNP's record in govt is irrelevant and that there is nothing they can do about the NHS without Independence, but still   

Nobody's disputing the fact that the SNP run NHS is shit and getting worse but it's a valid comparison to ask if they are doing any worse than the Tory run English NHS or the Labour run Welsh NHS.

 

And as for the head of the BMA, I'd question if he's coming from a politically neutral position as well.

 

 

 

[lichtgilphead]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

What would I propose the Scot govt does differently? To answer the question, given that other folks answer on the NHS is simply 'Independence'?

Take 750 million out of a £70 billion budget and settle the nurses pay dispute.

Provide better funding to GPS surgeries and look at ways in which to manage the pressure on surgeries.

Sit down with health providers in other European countries to look at their models and learn from what they seem to be able to do better.

Better manage cancer waiting times as a priority.

Have a proper public awareness campaign of better health choices rather than tinkering around the edges with it.

 

I cannot be bothered looking up the equivalent figures for Wales, but I assume that all these proposals have been put into place by NHS Cymru?

If not, can Jedi please explain why not?

[Boo Khaki]

Given that the relevant legislation is reserved, I'd like Westminster to spell out exactly why they believe there is such a discrepancy in drug-related deaths between Scotland and England, and elaborate on what they believe that the SG should be doing, within the constraints of those laws, that they are not.

Explain for us why is it the laws appear to 'work', to an extent at least, to moderate the issue in England, when they do not appear to do so in Scotland despite allegedly being perfectly fit for purpose?

Or is it, as I suspect, that the sociological aspect of the issue is entirely different north and south of the border, the constraints of the reserved laws don't permit Scotland to tackle the specifics of the drug problem here in any meaningful way, and that to acknowledge that would mean Westminster and it's BritNat government conceding that no, we aren't just all the same and one nation, something that they are completely unable to bring themselves to do?

I'm completely cynical on this issue, because Westminster clearly views this as a useful thing to weaponise against the SG, but what it means in practicality is their intransigence results in more Scots needlessly dying, and I don't think they actually give a shit because the people this is killing are of no value to the Tory party. The Tories especially are firmly stuck in the dogmatic view that anything that liberalises drug laws must by default be inherently a bad thing, and I suspect their core voter base is of much the same view, so until they are fucked off into the sea nothing will change.