When will indyref2 happen?

[Colkitto]

2 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

That may well be true, but it is a reaction to a situation , rather than a belief. It could be a very dangerous error.

Brexit is a reaction to a situation and we are most likely to be leaving the EU. That's the problem with democracy eh? 

[Colkitto]

1 hour ago, Blootoon87 said:

2 hours ago, Colkitto said:

Well Brexit and it's disastrous impact hasn't actually happened yet. When it starts to becomes a reality to the voters then people will need to make up their minds on what kind of Scotland they want for themselves and their children.
Do you believe Brexit will be a good thing for the Union?  

When Brexit really starts hitting people it will all be the SNP's fault somehow.

I'm sure the Brit media will help push that agenda when called upon...

[John Lambies Doos]

That may well be true, but it is a reaction to a situation , rather than a belief. It could be a very dangerous error.

I thought you were convinced that Yes would win the next referendum and was thinking about voting yes...

[DAFC.]

Hmm, I can’t see EU residents being granted a vote in any future 2nd Ref once Brexit is signed and sealed. Granted, the core of younger voters will support Independence however.

Core? You’re looking at 70-75% of 16-24 voting Yes IMO.

Jockoland bad as per usual on this thread.

[git-intae-thum]

5 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

That may well be true, but it is a reaction to a situation , rather than a belief. It could be a very dangerous error.

Our biggest error was made in 2014.

Barring those motivated by blind Brit nationalism, we are surely able to see that now.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Hard Brexit makes IndyRef2 all the more likely and also (IMHO) more likely for independence to happen.

 

 

 

 

[RedRob72]

Well Brexit and it's disastrous impact hasn't actually happened yet. When it starts to becomes a reality to the voters then people will need to make up their minds on what kind of Scotland they want for themselves and their children.
Do you believe Brexit will be a good thing for the Union?  

Sure I’ve posted before, that a hard Brexit will be a surefire way of eventually breaking the Union for good, and the Tory backbenchers who seem hell bent on leaving the EU with or without a deal, will be wholly responsible. Ironic given that they purport to be the bastions of unity across these islands. I’m certain that dragging both Scotland and Northern Ireland out of Europe will only accelerate this.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

5 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

8 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

That may well be true, but it is a reaction to a situation , rather than a belief. It could be a very dangerous error.

I thought you were convinced that Yes would win the next referendum and was thinking about voting yes...

I am indeed convinced that Yes will win the next referendum. Due mostly to having a vicious Tory /DUP government and Brexit. 

[John Lambies Doos]

I am indeed convinced that Yes will win the next referendum. Due mostly to having a vicious Tory /DUP government and Brexit. 

Will you still vote no?

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

Just now, John Lambies Doos said:

Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

I am indeed convinced that Yes will win the next referendum. Due mostly to having a vicious Tory /DUP government and Brexit. 

Will you still vote no?

I am undecided

[DA Baracus]

Those boots won't lick themselves 

[welshbairn]

14 minutes ago, DA Baracus said:

Those boots won't lick themselves 

You'd have to be a fool not to be undecided. After a hard Brexit there might be no easy transition to regaining EU membership and continuing free borders with rUK. A customs union might make it relatively smooth. Independence could be our salvation or a total disaster, depending on the circumstances at the time. 

[GTG_03]

57 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You'd have to be a fool not to be undecided. After a hard Brexit there might be no easy transition to regaining EU membership and continuing free borders with rUK. A customs union might make it relatively smooth. Independence could be our salvation or a total disaster, depending on the circumstances at the time. 

No easy transition? At a time when the EU is under pressure, an Indy Scotland looking to regain immediate membership would be a real boon. 

Other countries thinking of leaving the EU would just look at what happened to the UK and be mad to follow suit.  

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, GTG_03 said:

No easy transition? At a time when the EU is under pressure, an Indy Scotland looking to regain immediate membership would be a real boon. 

Other countries thinking of leaving the EU would just look at what happened to the UK and be mad to follow suit.  

The problem would be most of our trade with Europe travelling through England, and maintaining open borders for trade with rUK.

[lichtgilphead]

26 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The problem would be most of our trade with Europe travelling through England, and maintaining open borders for trade with rUK.

If Scotland was an EU member, rUK would have to apply the same border controls at all their land & sea borders with other EU members (primarily Eire (or maybe Ireland), the Netherlands, Belgium & France). As can be seen from the Eire situation, the EU will stand up for its members.

Do you really think that rUK would screw themselves elsewhere just to get back at Scotland by enforcing the hardest of hard borders? Remember, Raab will have his hi-tech e-border solution in place at the UK-Eire border soon (ha-ha)

Anyway, even if the e-border app didn't work, there would be other options still open to us. Goods could travel between Dover - Gretna under customs seals or we could reestablish the ferry sailings between Rosyth - Zeebrugge.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

If Scotland was an EU member, rUK would have to apply the same border controls at all their land & sea borders with other EU members (primarily Eire (or maybe Ireland), the Netherlands, Belgium & France). As can be seen from the Eire situation, the EU will stand up for its members.
Do you really think that rUK would screw themselves elsewhere just to get back at Scotland by enforcing the hardest of hard borders? Remember, Raab will have his hi-tech e-border solution in place at the UK-Eire border soon (ha-ha)
Anyway, even if the e-border app didn't work, there would be other options still open to us. Goods could travel between Dover - Gretna under customs seals or we could reestablish the ferry sailings between Rosyth - Zeebrugge.

Not only Rosyth but Dundee, Aberdeen, Grangemouth and Leith.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

If Scotland was an EU member, rUK would have to apply the same border controls at all their land & sea borders with other EU members (primarily Eire (or maybe Ireland), the Netherlands, Belgium & France). As can be seen from the Eire situation, the EU will stand up for its members.

Do you really think that rUK would screw themselves elsewhere just to get back at Scotland by enforcing the hardest of hard borders? Remember, Raab will have his hi-tech e-border solution in place at the UK-Eire border soon (ha-ha)

Anyway, even if the e-border app didn't work, there would be other options still open to us. Goods could travel between Dover - Gretna under customs seals or we could reestablish the ferry sailings between Rosyth - Zeebrugge.

Sounds like the delusions of the Brexiteers. Supply chains and bureaucracy problems would be a huge pain in the arse for the Scottish economy unless rUK have a single market or customs deal with the EU, and an open borders deal between the rUK and Scotland. Making all trade between the EU and Scotland by ship would be hugely costly.

[DublinMagyar]

Not only Rosyth but Dundee, Aberdeen, Grangemouth and Leith.

And prestwick airport

[DAFC.]

If rUK wants to be stupid enough to enforce the hardest of borders on an indy, EU member Scotland, then  Scotland has plenty other options of transporting goods aforementioned. Do you think for one second the EU isn't going to stand up for one of its members if the rUK wants to throw a huff to spite Scotland? 

It really is a non starter for 'Jockoland bad' camp. Unfortunately the easy targets will jump all over it and the usual pish like guards on the border, difficult to visit family in England etc will be strung out IF indyref2 is called.

[lichtgilphead]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Sounds like the delusions of the Brexiteers.

1. Supply chains and bureaucracy problems would be a huge pain in the arse for the Scottish economy unless rUK have a single market or customs deal with the EU, 

2. and an open borders deal between the rUK and Scotland.

3. Making all trade between the EU and Scotland by ship would be hugely costly.

1) Supply chains & bureaucracy problems will be a huge pain in the arse for the Scottish economy if we remain as part of the UK unless the UK have a single market or customs deal with the EU

2) There will be no need for a separate deal between Scotland & rUK if we're EU members. We'll just trade with the rUK in the same fashion as as our other 27 EU colleagues

3) Would it? Can you provide costings/timings for a lorry taking a ferry to travel from the continent to Dover & then driving to Edinburgh (plus the time wasted at 2 sets of customs in your scenario) and compare it with the cost of a ferry from the continent to Rosyth then driving to Edinburgh in our EU common travel area?

I note you've also completely ignored the concept of Customs Seals. Do you need this explained?