Antlion Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: In regards to a Scottish vote I.e. Holurood elections and Indy ref 2014. So the Scottish people should get a second independence referendum? They elected a parliament that pledged and later voted to hold one in the event of a material change in circumstances. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Gibraltar and Northern Ireland are extremely complex situations as you well know. They are. Why though? For all the talk of Cybernats, Scotland and politics if fairly peaceful - if you leave out our BritNats and Orange Orders. Is it implied that we're 'simple' and 'not complex' simply because we don't have a significant and troublesome minority prepared to resort to murder if we don't get our way? I appreciate this doesn't include Gibraltar, at least not in recent history, but there's still the ugly sight of two behemoths banging their big baws at each other in order to control a barren piece of rock. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Antlion said: So the Scottish people should get a second independence referendum? They elected a parliament that pledged and later voted to hold one in the event of a material change in circumstances. Yes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: As Holyrood has fiscal powers, why is it pointless? What fiscal powers do you think Holyrood is going to have after brexit when there is no longer pressure on the UK Government from the European Commission ? Holyrood will be dismantled piece by piece until there is quite literally nothing left. It will be 100% direct rule from London and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Yes. Hurrah. If only the Dear Leader down south thought we were in a union and not one of its uppity regions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Yes. And if they have that request rejected by the Tories in event of Scotland being dragged out of the EU, with both of those events looking likely? What does that say about the importance of the Scottish government? I'd say that since Brexit more than meets the requirements that Antilion just gave you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Antlion said: Hurrah. If only the Dear Leader down south thought we were in a union and not one of its uppity regions. Indeed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 40 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Gibraltar and Northern Ireland are extremely complex situations as you well know. And I suppose all those English Leave voting towns now getting money thrown at them is just an extra layer of complexity for us all to wonder at. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Just now, Mr Heliums said: And I suppose all those English Leave voting towns now getting money thrown at them is just an extra layer of complexity for us all to wonder at. Disturbingly simple way of looking at it. While it is grotesque that this is happening, the history of both Northern Ireland and Gibraltar bears no relevance to what is being done there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Disturbingly simple way of looking at it. While it is grotesque that this is happening, the history of both Northern Ireland and Gibraltar bears no relevance to what is being done there. What's that got to do with my post? I was talking about money being given to towns in England that voted Leave. Where's the complex sensitivities there? Edited March 10, 2019 by Mr Heliums 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, BawWatchin said: What fiscal powers do you think Holyrood is going to have after brexit when there is no longer pressure on the UK Government from the European Commission ? Holyrood will be dismantled piece by piece until there is quite literally nothing left. It will be 100% direct rule from London and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it. ^^^ Project fear IMO 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Scotland being a nation matters for f**k all if it doesn’t choose to go independent when it’s given the opportunity. Obvs that’s a justification for holding another referendum since the SNP’s policy, assuming they have the backing of the Greens, was that any material change in circumstances warranted another vote and this is a fairly substantial material change. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Scotland being a nation matters for f**k all if it doesn’t choose to go independent when it’s given the opportunity. Obvs that’s a justification for holding another referendum since the SNP’s policy, assuming they have the backing of the Greens, was that any material change in circumstances warranted another vote and this is a fairly substantial material change. Spot on. Whenever any Scottish independence supporter points out the democratic deficit with Scotland not getting the government it votes for, I point out that neither does Manchester or Liverpool, or that there are parts of Scotland who don't want an SNP government, and that's just how democracy works. The person will then reply pointing out that Scotland is a nation unlike Liverpool, which is a fair response, however it means that the argument is reduced to one of national identity, which is fair in itself, but probably means that we waste a bunch of time arguing over why Scotland should/should not be independent. Really it should come down to a very simple two questions: Is your national identity Scottish or British? Do you think nations should be able to run their own affairs democratically? If the argument could be reduced to these two facts then yes should win easily. It's a bit more complicated for myself as a Scotsman who lives down South, but I see England as my permanent home now and would love to campaign for us to at least get some kind of devolution away from Westminster if not complete independence. The probably with this is that I'd be doing it from the point of centre-left civic nationalism, and AFAIK all English nationalist movements are far right BNP esque ethnic nationalism types. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 And I suppose all those English Leave voting towns now getting money thrown at them is just an extra layer of complexity for us all to wonder at.As explained earlier That might sound like a lot of money but in this context it’s not significantly different from f**k all money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 1 hour ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: As explained earlier That might sound like a lot of money but in this context it’s not significantly different from f**k all money. Give us a couple of ponies for our social club and we'll be well chuffed down here, madam. Mind you, what are we like. Ha Ha Hee Hee Hee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 What fiscal powers do you think Holyrood is going to have after brexit when there is no longer pressure on the UK Government from the European Commission ? Holyrood will be dismantled piece by piece until there is quite literally nothing left. It will be 100% direct rule from London and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it.what a load of crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergie's no1 fan Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 What is democratic is what the majority of Scottish people vote for.Did we vote for a Tory Government? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 https://wingsoverscotland.com/one-way-or-the-other/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UsedToGoToCentralPark Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Regardless of the accuracy of this kind of reporting it's not going to help the case. Project fear going into early full scale scaremongering. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said: Regardless of the accuracy of this kind of reporting it's not going to help the case. Project fear going into early full scale scaremongering. That'll be Ronald McDonald will it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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