When will indyref2 happen?

[hearthammer]

12 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

For better or for worse (or both) London will still be there whether Scotland is independent or not.

 

It’s been drawing people in from Dublin, Durban and Delhi. It will continue to draw people from Dundee

 

Other alliterations are available

 

 

I agree that the lure of the "paved with gold" streets draws many people, but the point i was making was that it's all about elevating london to the detriment and cost of all of the other areas of the (currently) 3 "equal partner" countries (aye, ah ken ) that make up this thing they call a union.

[Ross.]

22 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Other alliterations are available

Belfast, Bangalore, Bloemfontein and Broughty Ferry.

[Big Rider]

11 hours ago, Malky3 said:

They are 7 miles apart and all part of the same naval base. The fact check article is accurate. Read it yourself. 

BTW it's also worth the scrapping trident lunatic having a wee read as well as "Scotlands share" of the cost of Trident is clearly defined and it's nowhere near £12.6Bn per annum. 

No Malky. You said Coulport not Faslane. How many jobs are we protecting at Coulport? 

You have form for not being able to back up your ridiculous claims.  I think we can add this to the ever expanding list.

[Kuro]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

in real life I have friends and family who voted No

These aren’t the Union Jack waving nationalist arseholes but people who were change averse and didn’t like the idea of being plunged into an uncertain future and didn’t like the perceived isolationism of the independence movement

They all voted Remain and most quoted doubts over whether an independent Scotland would be in the EU as a reason I should vote No.

The ones who haven’t changed their mind after being plunged into an uncertain future are no longer quite so confident in their positions.

 

The ones who haven't are unionists.  Voting no alone doesn't make you a unionist, some people are gullible, were duped, received bad information.  I mean the entirety of the media was hysterically opposed to yes and actively trying to prevent its you can't blame some people for being taken in.  Unionists are those for whom the answer would always be no no matter what.  And every one of them is a w****r.

[Kuro]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

Not quite true. Many of our brightest and best end up in London because the money and opportunities on offer are far better than at home. Clearly that is beneficial to the rest of us.

How.is that beneficial to Scotland?

[Ross.]

Just now, Kuro said:

How.is that beneficial to Scotland?

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I agree that the lure of the "paved with gold" streets draws many people, but the point i was making was that it's all about elevating london to the detriment and cost of all of the other areas of the (currently) 3 "equal partner" countries (aye, ah ken [emoji3]) that make up this thing they call a union.

Had I not been posting from a phone I’d have quoted both you and Ross as I was effectively responding to both.

[Ross.]

3 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Had I not been posting from a phone I’d have quoted both you and Ross as I was effectively responding to both.
 

The issue is not that London is there and will still be there, it's that the UK as it is feeds it as much as it can to the detriment of the other regions. There is of course some spend in other areas, with things like HS2, but even then it is designed to increase the pull of London and make it more accessible from the rest of the UK, with any benefit to the areas it runs through being a bonus and nothing more.

The UK really needs to look at decentralisation on a huge scale. Reducing London's power base and status would be a fantastic thing for most of the country. Never going to happen though.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Specifics Malky. You mentioned Coulport jobs and then provided a link including Faslane. You do know that they are not the same place? Again, how many jobs are we protecting at Coulport Malky?

In terms of jobs at Coulport besides MOD police and marines, not that many. Anyway how many jobs does it take to justify a weapon of mass destruction?

[Big Rider]

7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

In terms of jobs at Coulport besides MOD police and marines, not that many. Anyway how many jobs does it take to justify a weapon of mass destruction?

That's what I need Malky to admit instead of slevering shite. 

[Kuro]

27 minutes ago, Ross. said:

The issue is not that London is there and will still be there, it's that the UK as it is feeds it as much as it can to the detriment of the other regions. There is of course some spend in other areas, with things like HS2, but even then it is designed to increase the pull of London and make it more accessible from the rest of the UK, with any benefit to the areas it runs through being a bonus and nothing more.

The UK really needs to look at decentralisation on a huge scale. Reducing London's power base and status would be a fantastic thing for most of the country. Never going to happen though.

There was an interesting study done showing the amount of business cities would lose as a result of hs2.  The worst bit for whatever reason was Aberdeen, which would lose 250m per year or thereabouts.  We're literally paying billions for a railway that doesn't even come to this country that will cost us.billions in lost.business.  Yay UK.

[Kuro]

22 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

In terms of jobs at Coulport besides MOD police and marines, not that many. Anyway how many jobs does it take to justify a weapon of mass destruction?

Look.at it.this way, you could make every one of them.redundant and give them a payoff of say a million each and it would still be infinitely cheaper than nuclear weapons that you'll never use.

[sophia]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

 

For better or for worse (or both) London will still be there whether Scotland is independent or not.

 

It’s been drawing people in from Dublin, Durban and Delhi. It will continue to draw people from Dundee

 

Other alliterations are available

 

 

I couldn't help but notice that you didn't include Dingwall. I wonder where the high flyers from Dingwall go?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Look.at it.this way, you could make every one of them.redundant and give them a payoff of say a million each and it would still be infinitely cheaper than nuclear weapons that you'll never use.

You wouldnt have to, post indy the English troops and loyal house Jocks troop off to the UK army and the modern thinkers are absorbed into the Scottish Defence Force. The MOD cops are relocated to England or given the option to transfer their firearms skills into Police Scotland and guard Scottish critical infrastructure.
The civilian staff could be deployed to helping build and maintain Scotlands infrastructure. Either that or we do a deal with UK and say they can keep both open for 10 years to build an alternative down south.

[Kuro]

1 minute ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

You wouldnt have to, post indy the English troops and loyal house Jocks troop off to the UK army and the modern thinkers are absorbed into the Scottish Defence Force. The MOD cops are relocated to England or given the option to transfer their firearms skills into Police Scotland and guard Scottish critical infrastructure.
The civilian staff could be deployed to helping build and maintain Scotlands infrastructure. Either that or we do a deal with UK and say they can keep both open for 10 years to build an alternative down south.

I think a.ten year arrangement with the UK would be.inevitable,.unless they.move.them to.the USA, which tactically reduces their.usefulness, they have nowhere to putthem.And it would take the years to.build.somewhere.  Hopefully 20 miles from their largest population centre.

[welshbairn]

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

How do you persuade major companies to move out of London?

It's work which drives people to that city so how do you fix that problem?

There are plenty places that offer a better quality of life than London, with much cheaper property. Companies no longer need to be in close physical proximity with each other and intermediaries like banks and traders. I know you haven't noticed but it's the 21st century. 

[Ross.]

35 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

How do you persuade major companies to move out of London?

It's work which drives people to that city so how do you fix that problem?

Long term planning with infrastructure and facilities. Move government departments elsewhere. Getting rid of the "London top up" for wages. Charge companies extra if they insist on centralizing their entire operation in one place. Offer tax breaks to those who "spread the love". Things that other countries manage to do with little problem.

[johnnydun]

5 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

I see there was about half a page of relatively amicable debate last night before normal service resumed.

Credit to Johnnydun for trying anyway.

Thank you.

I just wanted to kind of refresh this thread with a sensible discussion about it. 

But no minds will be changed in either side if this is how we talk to each other.

[hearthammer]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

It has nothing to do with elevating London.

This is individuals making a free choice about where to live and work.

Good on anyone who has the ambition to follow what they want.

Hope you read the previous posts i made and not just the one you replied to ??  Each to their own re work choices. I was accusing the uber-class tories of having one major ambition of making their londonshire the world metropolis for everything. 

[Mastermind]

Places like Irvine, Glenrothes, Airdrie and Bellshill will become huge global economic powerhouses once we are independent and London etc will no longer hold any appeal whatsoever.