DBA Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 11 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: SNP: 37.0% (-4.1) LAB: 28.4% (-6.9) CON: 18.5% (+11.7) LDEM: 14.3% (+4.3) GRN: 1.8% (+1.8) That was based on first-choice votes. Apparently after Green, Lib Dems and Tories were excluded, Labour got over 70% of the transferable votes. 'Anyone but the SNP' and they still lost! However, turnout was only 27% so not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 3 hours ago, DBA said: That was based on first-choice votes. Apparently after Green, Lib Dems and Tories were excluded, Labour got over 70% of the transferable votes. 'Anyone but the SNP' and they still lost! However, turnout was only 27% so not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from it. Unionist v Nationalist politics 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Unionist v Nationalist politics 72.4 % of the electorate uninterested ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Trying so hard wes, you're like a desperate wee unionist puppy champing at the heels of reality and coherent thought. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 39 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: 72.4 % of the electorate uninterested ? Probably not, a week before Xmas on a dark December night 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Trying so hard wes, you're like a desperate wee unionist puppy champing at the heels of reality and coherent thought. Don't shoot the messenger Pep, it's a shite turnout which EVER way you look at it. Perhaps Colkitto's just right, a cold rainy December Thursday. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 4 hours ago, DBA said: However, turnout was only 27% so not sure how many conclusions can be drawn from it. Pretty average turnout for council elections 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 you can be elected in my part of the world on about 600 votes. at 16k a year no wonder it's only the retired and nutjobs that take it on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 14 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: you can be elected in my part of the world on about 600 votes. at 16k a year no wonder it's only the retired and nutjobs that take it on. One of ours got in on 333 votes in 2012 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 People have a low opinion of local democracy. People have a low opinion of local elected representatives. I wonder what the reaction would be if we substantially increased the allowances paid to local Councillors in an attempt to attract a higher calibre of candidate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: wonder what the reaction would be if we substantially increased the allowances paid to local Councillors in an attempt to attract a higher calibre of candidate. Quote Payment of Members, enabling tradesmen, working men, or other persons of modest means to leave or interrupt their livelihood to attend to the interests of the nation. One of the demands of chartism Edited December 16, 2016 by dorlomin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Granny Danger said: People have a low opinion of local democracy. People have a low opinion of local elected representatives. I wonder what the reaction would be if we substantially increased the allowances paid to local Councillors in an attempt to attract a higher calibre of candidate. I don't see how it can be right that councillors get paid about the same as admin assistant or about 10% of what chief execs get. I think a flat 40K would be reasonable. The other argument is you devolve down to town councils again and make the cllr almost voluntary made up of local people and you get the high calibre as they have real power and resource to directly affect very local affairs. I think we have the worst of both worlds with current local govt structure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Lib dems picking up council seats in England.Could the votes down there become Leave v Remain? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 People have a low opinion of local democracy. People have a low opinion of local elected representatives. I wonder what the reaction would be if we substantially increased the allowances paid to local Councillors in an attempt to attract a higher calibre of candidate. I often wonder about why we elect councillors because they are often not the ones making the key decisions.Certainly my own feeling here in Dundee is that it is the same clique who have always made the decisions irrespective if it is the SNP or Labour in charge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: I often wonder about why we elect councillors because they are often not the ones making the key decisions. Certainly my own feeling here in Dundee is that it is the same clique who have always made the decisions irrespective if it is the SNP or Labour in charge. This is so true,im fed up of trying to get people out to vote "for the cooncil" as i actually believe that your council vote is more important than your mp (they get the cash to spend) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 11 hours ago, doulikefish said: This is so true,im fed up of trying to get people out to vote "for the cooncil" as i actually believe that your council vote is more important than your mp (they get the cash to spend) They don't really. Once your statutory obligations and implementing central govt policy is done there is very little left to spend. What there is left is decided by council officers and rubber stamped by elected members. They basically do a little bit of scrutiny of officers and first point of call for constituent complaints. there is very little politics or policy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 They don't really. Once your statutory obligations and implementing central govt policy is done there is very little left to spend. What there is left is decided by council officers and rubber stamped by elected members. They basically do a little bit of scrutiny of officers and first point of call for constituent complaints. there is very little politics or policy Which was the point I was making - it's the council officers who make all the decisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 On 17 December 2016 at 11:15, DeeTillEhDeh said: I often wonder about why we elect councillors because they are often not the ones making the key decisions. Certainly my own feeling here in Dundee is that it is the same clique who have always made the decisions irrespective if it is the SNP or Labour in charge. Do you have anything to support these "feelings". 14 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: They don't really. Once your statutory obligations and implementing central govt policy is done there is very little left to spend. What there is left is decided by council officers and rubber stamped by elected members. They basically do a little bit of scrutiny of officers and first point of call for constituent complaints. there is very little politics or policy First paragraph is spot one; second one is a misreprestataion at best, bullshit at worst. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 On 16/12/2016 at 21:50, invergowrie arab said: you can be elected in my part of the world on about 600 votes. at 16k a year no wonder it's only the retired and nutjobs that take it on. Or businessmen wanting to exploit the powers of a local council for commercial ends - the old District councils were almost master classes in this. A big part of the problem used to be that all they were paid was expenses for a role which could eat into a lot of their time - & they're expected to be available to their constituents 24/7 (in practice is another matter). Think what it must have been like in the days before answerphones became affordable & you'd get council tenants phoning you at 3 in the morning because their pipes had burst & expecting you to wave a magic wand! So only the retired or those with dubious motives would want to be councillors. The system's not perfect just now, but better than what it was, & the change to multi-member seats has definitely forced councillors to behave less like children (some areas more than others, true). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 8 hours ago, Granny Danger said: First paragraph is spot one; second one is a misreprestataion at best, bullshit at worst. go on.......... I don't want to get too specific on here as it's probably a disciplinary offence and given what went on in GN i would rather not go down that road. I would characterise it as chief officers go to elected members and say we think you should spend x on children, y on environment and z on housing. elected members might then come back and say we think it should be z on environment and y on housing. What x, y and z are then actually spent on once what sits in each accounting unit has been decided is again up to officers. Would you dispute that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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