greenockraver Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 The current coefficient system sees the top 3 leagues get 4 UCL places (3 straight through and 1 in the play off). Currently the top 3 are Spain England and Germany. The current trend shows that England are in regression. (Germany likely to overtake England in 2nd place) It also shows that Italy (4th place) are in somewhat in the middle of a renaissance. Although at the moment england are 10 points ahead of Italy although next season, they are poised to lose a very high points tally of 18.357 (due to the 5 season turnover with which these rankings are worked out - I know .. confusing) With West Ham and Southampton already out at an early stage this season, one more season like last for Italy could see Englands covated 4TH UCL place at risk... What ramifications do you think this would have for the EPL? Would Sky be happy? Interesting times ahead ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) England still have 6 teams to Italy's 5 in both competitions. Most points for are gained in the CL where it's a 4 Eng 2 Ita. So I can't see the overturn this season. If Eng do drop a team, expect changes from Uefa to accommodate them. Edited August 28, 2015 by SlipperyP 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swarley Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 England still have 6 teams to Italy's 5 in both competitions. Most points for are gained in the CL where it's a 4 Eng 2 Ita. So I can't see the overturn this season. If Eng do drop a team, expect changes from Uefa to accommodate them. Expect Sky to announce that the Europa League is the greatest tournament on Earth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerbelle Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if there was a competition that consisted of solely the champions of each country. Never happen though. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 England still have 6 teams to Italy's 5 in both competitions. Most points for are gained in the CL where it's a 4 Eng 2 Ita. So I can't see the overturn this season. If Eng do drop a team, expect changes from Uefa to accommodate them. I thought you earned the same coefficient points whether the wins/draws came in the champions league or europa league. If Liverpool and Tottenham take a half arsed approach to the europa it will do them some damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I thought you earned the same coefficient points whether the wins/draws came in the champions league or europa league. If Liverpool and Tottenham take a half arsed approach to the europa it will do them some damage. IIRC your points are calculated with the team you play against, and as more CL teams are higher up on the coefficient list the more points you obtain. example Arsenal get more points for beating Bayern then if they were to beat Celtic I've had a head knock recently so could be speaking absolute bollocks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenockraver Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) England still have 6 teams to Italy's 5 in both competitions. Most points for are gained in the CL where it's a 4 Eng 2 Ita. So I can't see the overturn this season. If Eng do drop a team, expect changes from Uefa to accommodate them. True. However remember that the full points tally for each club is divided by the total number of season participants for that association... so if england have 8 it means the total points gained for all teams will be divided by that number. Italy have less participants therefore single team elimination will affect them less provided other clubs do well like last seaon. Edited August 28, 2015 by greenockraver 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenockraver Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) IIRC your points are calculated with the team you play against, and as more CL teams are higher up on the coefficient list the more points you obtain. example Arsenal get more points for beating Bayern then if they were to beat Celtic I've had a head knock recently so could be speaking absolute bollocks Not the case at all. A win in Europe regardless of competition/opposition is rewarded with the same amount of coefficient points... There are however bonus points for qualifying for various stages of each tournament. It may seem very complicated however the whole system is just a formulaic way of keeping nations where they are by way of seeding. Basically, to maintain your coeficient, your teams must collect at least as much points as their seeding suggests(so every round a team is seeded in they are expected to win until the point they reach a round in which they become unseeded (this basically means they have "done their bit" for the country in terms of mainting current position and if all teams do this then they will not drop many places - its very very hard to climb many positions) The only exception would be if there was a freak season like us in 2007/08. It was because of the unusually large number of points total we collected that season that we climbed to 13th in europe and had 2 CL places for a time but after 5 years, we lost the points from that season and fell back to our true position amongst the minnows... Easy aint it.. Edited August 28, 2015 by greenockraver 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if there was a competition that consisted of solely the champions of each country. No -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Not the case at all. A win in Europe regardless of competition/opposition is rewarded with the same amount of coefficient points... There are however bonus points for qualifying for various stages of each tournament. It may seem very complicated however the whole system is just a formulaic way of keeping nations where they are by way of seeding. Basically, to maintain your coeficient, your teams must collect at least as much points as their seeding suggests(so every round a team is seeded in they are expected to win until the point they reach a round in which they become unseeded (this basically means they have "done their bit" for the country in terms of mainting current position and if all teams do this then they will not drop many places - its very very hard to climb many positions) The only exception would be if there was a freak season like us in 2007/08. It was because of the unusually large number of points total we collected that season that we climbed to 13th in europe and had 2 CL places for a time but after 5 years, we lost the points from that season and fell back to our true position amongst the minnows... Easy aint it.. I think my tramadol has just kicked in 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Malkmus Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Sky don't care about the Champion's League anymore now that they've lost the rights to it. THey were discussing the Women's AShes yesterday while the draw was on BT Sport. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigOutYourSoul Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Sky don't care about the Champion's League anymore now that they've lost the rights to it. THey were discussing the Women's AShes yesterday while the draw was on BT Sport. It's actually becoming pretty laughable. If England were to lose a 4th place it would make the league very interesting as the battle for 3 Champions League places would be pretty intense - Arsenal might have to consider a new approach. FWIW I don't think it'll happen unless Italy can get someone else in a final this season. Can't see the English flopping anywhere near as bad in the CL this season. Spurs have probably given up all hope of a top 4 finish so a run in the Europa would be good for them. As much as the English media slate it - the Europa League is still a major European competition, in some instances more competitive than the Champions League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenockraver Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I dont even think the english are aware of how much damage they are doing to their league by not giving a f**k in the europa league. major ramifications are apparant if they even bothered to look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I dont even think the english are aware of how much damage they are doing to their league by not giving a f**k in the europa league. major ramifications are apparant if they even bothered to look. Long may it continue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Sky would be delighted because it would make the race for "top 4" a race for "top 3", while at the same time devaluing BT's CL rights (although it's entirely possible Sky could have the rights back by the time there's any change). It would make an even bigger mockery of the "Best League in the World" tagline, however. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Wouldn't it be nice if there was a competition that consisted of solely the champions of each country. Never happen though. Yes let's watch Barca destroy KF Skënderbeu 9-0 instead of a decent game like Dortmund v Man City. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigOutYourSoul Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Have to agree that the 'champions only' argument is utter shite. It would be horrific. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 BT will show every single Champions League group stage game this season (as Sky did in previous seasons). I wonder how many people will choose to watch the matches involving national champions over those involving the 2nd-4th placed sides from bigger nations. I'm assuming the viewing figures for Benfica v Astana and Olympiacos v Dinamo Zagreb will be through the roof. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 It's an idea that's nice until you get even slightly into it. It worked back in the day, but in modern football it just wouldn't work. It would end up with having a sub-tournament to make up the shortfall, and that tournament being a bigger draw than its supposed superior. If they put it into practice for this season, and it was the top 16 sides, you'd have. Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, Benfica, Zenit, Dynamo Kiev, Gent, PSV, Galatasaray, Basel, Viktoria Plzen, Olympiacos, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Zagreb At that, you'd have some decent matches I suppose, but there's definitely a few teams in there that would get horsed. Open it up to 32 teams, and that gets worse, as the champions of such leading nations as Israel, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Kazahkstan, Liechtenstein, Slovakia, Slovenia will get a place. So would Celtic! I can't be arsed going through and seeing which 16 teams would qualify from the 17-32 spots, but it's hardly going to be filled with quality. In the meantime, huge teams from around Europe are excluded, and probably playing in a competition that's suddenly become a lot more marketable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 It's an idea that's nice until you get even slightly into it. It worked back in the day, but in modern football it just wouldn't work. It would end up with having a sub-tournament to make up the shortfall, and that tournament being a bigger draw than its supposed superior. If they put it into practice for this season, and it was the top 16 sides, you'd have. Barcelona, Chelsea, Bayern, Juventus, PSG, Benfica, Zenit, Dynamo Kiev, Gent, PSV, Galatasaray, Basel, Viktoria Plzen, Olympiacos, Steaua Bucharest, Dynamo Zagreb At that, you'd have some decent matches I suppose, but there's definitely a few teams in there that would get horsed. Open it up to 32 teams, and that gets worse, as the champions of such leading nations as Israel, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Kazahkstan, Liechtenstein, Slovakia, Slovenia will get a place. So would Celtic! I can't be arsed going through and seeing which 16 teams would qualify from the 17-32 spots, but it's hardly going to be filled with quality. In the meantime, huge teams from around Europe are excluded, and probably playing in a competition that's suddenly become a lot more marketable. The problem I have is that the groups tend to become a bit samey, with all the seeding, country protection, etc. I know it's massively unlikely, and probably has its flaws too, but I'd actually rather just see a free draw in the group stages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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