Bishop Briggs Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Policy which gives the party leader this sort of public opinion, you mean? Those ratings are consistent with voting intentions in recent opinion polls. Those figures merely confirm that the average Scot is biased towards the leader of his or her chosen party. Did you honestly expect SNP voters to rate Sturgeon poorly and the leaders of other parties better than her? The most surprising and interesting part is that Dugdale and Davidson appear to be rated well by large numbers who vote for other parties. The SNP obviously needs Sturgeon and Salmond as strong and eloquent leaders. Without them, the party's support would be much lower. Just look at how badly the SNP performed at elections when Swinney was leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 There's a lot more to this whole story - indeed as a tale of intrigue & shitgibbonry it's almost House Of Cards meets Are You Right There, Father Ted? It appears there's a host of factors at play: 1. one Parliamentary candidate (a millionaire businessman) who won the nomination fair & square, only to be vetoed by Charlotte Square because reading between the lines they felt Coatbridge wouldn't vote for anyone non-white. The majority of local branch members were not happy (remember, this was before the polls started predicting the SNP landslide - so picking the best candidate was seen as even more vital in this most diehard of Labour heartlands). And there was me thinking he was ditched because of a series of allegations about him in the press. This is interesting reading and provides some context for any racism claims. 2. the replacement candidate (& now MP) greasing the palms of Mcanumptie (who came a distant third in the Westminster selection contest) with a constituency office job to get her & her supporters onside (even though she gets a salary as a full-time councillor anyway) to offset his unpopularity, whilst marginalising the winning candidates supporters instead of trying to get them all working together. Meanwhile in Airdrie the winning candidate gives a job to a councillor who is also employed by the local MSP. How many jobs does one guy need? 3. Mcanumptie not being too popular with the local old guard because she stood against the SNP locally several times in recent years (accusations of vote splitting, etc) & they now see a former political enemy being fast tracked ahead of long time loyal members during the lean years just at the moment the decades of hard work are finally bearing fruit. Nothing to do with the Mears scandal? An open goal for the SNP opposition and they are ordered to stay silent. Councillor McNulty refuses and asks questions her SNP colleagues would rather not be asked. All these factors crop up with other parties in other places - but seldom all of these at once. This is what made the situation out there a timebomb waiting to go off - & what could very well happen elsewhere for the SNP - members feeling their party is being stolen from them at the moment they're finally on top, with the acquiescence of an increasingly autocratic HQ. Hopefully the SNP will learn lessons from the mess out there in the way Labour never learned with Monklands, but right now they should be thankful everyone's so pissed off with Labour that it's not going to lose them the Holyrood election - it's the council elections after that they need to start worrying about if this sort of idiocy becomes an all too regular occurance. The SNP have learned no lessons. You can't learn lessons with your fingers in your ears while wearing a blindfold and shouting "la-la-la-la-la, I'm not listening"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Those ratings are consistent with voting intentions in recent opinion polls. Those figures merely confirm that the average Scot is biased towards the leader of his or her chosen party. Did you honestly expect SNP voters to rate Sturgeon poorly and the leaders of other parties better than her? The most surprising and interesting part is that Dugdale and Davidson appear to be rated well by large numbers who vote for other parties. The SNP obviously needs Sturgeon and Salmond as strong and eloquent leaders. Without them, the party's support would be much lower. Just look at how badly the SNP performed at elections when Swinney was leader. Why would one vote for Ruthie, a woman whose goal in life is to work for David Cameron and who is "passionate" about denying Scotland statehood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You can't really describe subjective opinions as true or false though, can you? So yet again, you are incorrect. And yet you describe my own subjective opinion as incorrect ?? How strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Why would one vote for Ruthie, a woman whose goal in life is to work for David Cameron and who is "passionate" about denying Scotland statehood? Presumably, because most of those voters are Unionists who think that Scotland is better off as part of the UK. There may be a significant number of voters who support Independence but want Conservative MSPs to represent them in Holyrood. Given the denigration of "Tartan Tories" by SNP supporters, that would be a logical and rational choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 And yet you describe my own subjective opinion as incorrect ?? How strange... The statement that other people's subjective opinions are incorrect is an objective one. Unlucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 The statement that other people's subjective opinions are incorrect is an objective one. Unlucky. Aye ill no sleep tonight now worrying about that probably.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Why would one vote for Ruthie, a woman whose goal in life is to work for David Cameron and who is "passionate" about denying Scotland statehood? They won't vote for her hence why she'll have to slither in on the list...like every other party leader in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 -------SNIP!------------ Jester, you've made a bit of a dog's breakfast of the quote function, so I'll have to reply to your post as follows: 1. And there was me thinking he was ditched because of a series of allegations about him in the press. This is interesting reading and provides some context for any racism claims. What? That the guy went through a messy divorce? So what? Even in hardline wafer crunching bead tickling Cufflink Coatbridge, it's no longer a big deal. Derek Mackay publicly announced he was gay leaving his wife and three kids in the lurch - didn't stop him getting Holyrood portfolio after portfolio (all of which he's made an arse of to date). This is the 21st century. As for the complaint about Councillor Imtiaz Majid - made two years ago by a councillor who has since been expelled from the SNP for - amongst other things - doing chicken impressions in the council chamber like some daft wee student politician, to quote from the Commissioner "I concluded that Councillor Imtiaz Majid had not contravened the Councillors’ Code of Conduct.". It also mentions that Majid gave O'Brien an apology in the Council Chamber when afforded the opportunity to say so by the Labour Provost. Seems that O'Brien was determined to get his pound of flesh of Majid even when the party's political opponents were wanting everyone to calm down. What it does provide context to is the reason why the ex-SNP councillor O'Brien seems to be spending an extraordinary amount of time white knighting Macanumptie in the comments sections of the Herald and Scotsman - nothing more than opportunism by an expelled member looking for friends on the council (isn't it the case if he can get another two they can get themselves declared as a group and be entitled to all sorts of grands and goodies according to local council rules? Or is that only in England) at best, backing for a fellow traveller in the "those Asians, ya know, I'm not racist but..." stakes at worst... But as I've said already, there's lots more to this still to come out methinks... 2. Meanwhile in Airdrie the winning candidate gives a job to a councillor who is also employed by the local MSP. How many jobs does one guy need? Whataboutery. No one's disagreeing that this is wrong - but when Mcanumptie's apologists are trying to portray her as some sort of fearless crusader against corruption who has been set up, it all comes as a bit rich to find out she's happily got her own snout in the trough too by that very same means. If you want to play the white hat, you'd better be bloody consistent. 3. Nothing to do with the Mears scandal? An open goal for the SNP opposition and they are ordered to stay silent. Councillor McNulty refuses and asks questions her SNP colleagues would rather not be asked. Does this really need explaining? They'd rather not be asked because it was going to lead in turn to fellow SNP councillors - & ultimately the SNP - coming under fire just when they are within a whisker of the previously impossible dream of taking North Lanarkshire off Labour. One whiff of the SNP being "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss" & they could kiss goodbye to the dream of ever taking Labours last true stronghold. The whole business could easily have waited until after the elections, then the guilty parties publicly crucified as part of the SNP showing they were indeed a new broom ready to sweep out local council corruption - even within their own ranks. But no, Mcanumptie decided to go for glory in an expose that up until her own front page headlines in the Scottish news went barely noticed as it turned out, & caring not a jot what trouble it could put her party in. As a former political opponent, did it not occur to her for one minute that some in North Lanarkshire SNP might have started wondering whether she really was a team player, or merely using the SNP to put herself about? Or perhaps someone deliberately setting out to wreck the SNP's chances after successfully conning them into thinking she was now on their side (conspiracies cut both ways...). Also, the Mears scandal was over a year ago. It's funny that the Mcanumptie apologists are quick to go on about how suspicious it is that alleged racist remarks in a car months ago are being aired now, yet think there's nothing suspicious about themselves trying to use events from over a year ago to concoct a Tin Hat conspiracy explanation as to why one of their own councillor's is being accused of racist remarks now. Majid didn't even have any involvement in the Mears business, and the SNP people involved have no political connections with him, so where the hell the connection is between one person's alleged racist remakes & totally unconnected people's atypical crooked council dealings is anyone's guess. The more I've been reading about this, the more I'm beginning to wonder the real reason the 40 year long activist in Mcanumptie's car had decided to come forward now is the simple or common garden reason of having quite enough with a woman-child who appears to be more trouble than she is worth: banging desks & walking out of meetings only a month ago when she doesn't get her own way. No matter how good she is as a councillor, someone who falls out with fellow nationalists to the extent of refusing to sit next to them in the council chamber like she's still in bloody primary school is a liability to any party - and one they would be well rid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Aye ill no sleep tonight now worrying about that probably.. You know you're wrong. That's all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Cranked my Neck this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 You know you're wrong. That's all that matters.Aye just bask in the glow Gordon.I don't doubt thats all that matters in your case.Ive got new socks that matter more to me to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever_blue Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Wit aboot oor Alec hinging aboot in terrorist symphasising pubs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Wit aboot oor Alec hinging aboot in terrorist symphasising pubs ?Straight from the smash the snpeeee Hope they had a good ole sing song Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Wit aboot oor Alec hinging aboot in terrorist symphasising pubs ? I didn't know he was a Sevco fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Worse, he's a Jambo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Aye just bask in the glow Gordon.I don't doubt thats all that matters in your case.Ive got new socks that matter more to me to be honest. Seems like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Seems like it.Naw nae seems like it guff.I do indeed have new socks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Jester, you've made a bit of a dog's breakfast of the quote function, so I'll have to reply to your post as follows: 1. And there was me thinking he was ditched because of a series of allegations about him in the press. This is interesting reading and provides some context for any racism claims. What? That the guy went through a messy divorce? So what? Even in hardline wafer crunching bead tickling Cufflink Coatbridge, it's no longer a big deal. Derek Mackay publicly announced he was gay leaving his wife and three kids in the lurch - didn't stop him getting Holyrood portfolio after portfolio (all of which he's made an arse of to date). This is the 21st century. As for the complaint about Councillor Imtiaz Majid - made two years ago by a councillor who has since been expelled from the SNP for - amongst other things - doing chicken impressions in the council chamber like some daft wee student politician, to quote from the Commissioner "I concluded that Councillor Imtiaz Majid had not contravened the Councillors’ Code of Conduct.". It also mentions that Majid gave O'Brien an apology in the Council Chamber when afforded the opportunity to say so by the Labour Provost. Seems that O'Brien was determined to get his pound of flesh of Majid even when the party's political opponents were wanting everyone to calm down. What it does provide context to is the reason why the ex-SNP councillor O'Brien seems to be spending an extraordinary amount of time white knighting Macanumptie in the comments sections of the Herald and Scotsman - nothing more than opportunism by an expelled member looking for friends on the council (isn't it the case if he can get another two they can get themselves declared as a group and be entitled to all sorts of grands and goodies according to local council rules? Or is that only in England) at best, backing for a fellow traveller in the "those Asians, ya know, I'm not racist but..." stakes at worst... But as I've said already, there's lots more to this still to come out methinks... 2. Meanwhile in Airdrie the winning candidate gives a job to a councillor who is also employed by the local MSP. How many jobs does one guy need? Whataboutery. No one's disagreeing that this is wrong - but when Mcanumptie's apologists are trying to portray her as some sort of fearless crusader against corruption who has been set up, it all comes as a bit rich to find out she's happily got her own snout in the trough too by that very same means. If you want to play the white hat, you'd better be bloody consistent. 3. Nothing to do with the Mears scandal? An open goal for the SNP opposition and they are ordered to stay silent. Councillor McNulty refuses and asks questions her SNP colleagues would rather not be asked. Does this really need explaining? They'd rather not be asked because it was going to lead in turn to fellow SNP councillors - & ultimately the SNP - coming under fire just when they are within a whisker of the previously impossible dream of taking North Lanarkshire off Labour. One whiff of the SNP being "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss" & they could kiss goodbye to the dream of ever taking Labours last true stronghold. The whole business could easily have waited until after the elections, then the guilty parties publicly crucified as part of the SNP showing they were indeed a new broom ready to sweep out local council corruption - even within their own ranks. But no, Mcanumptie decided to go for glory in an expose that up until her own front page headlines in the Scottish news went barely noticed as it turned out, & caring not a jot what trouble it could put her party in. As a former political opponent, did it not occur to her for one minute that some in North Lanarkshire SNP might have started wondering whether she really was a team player, or merely using the SNP to put herself about? Or perhaps someone deliberately setting out to wreck the SNP's chances after successfully conning them into thinking she was now on their side (conspiracies cut both ways...). Also, the Mears scandal was over a year ago. It's funny that the Mcanumptie apologists are quick to go on about how suspicious it is that alleged racist remarks in a car months ago are being aired now, yet think there's nothing suspicious about themselves trying to use events from over a year ago to concoct a Tin Hat conspiracy explanation as to why one of their own councillor's is being accused of racist remarks now. Majid didn't even have any involvement in the Mears business, and the SNP people involved have no political connections with him, so where the hell the connection is between one person's alleged racist remakes & totally unconnected people's atypical crooked council dealings is anyone's guess. The more I've been reading about this, the more I'm beginning to wonder the real reason the 40 year long activist in Mcanumptie's car had decided to come forward now is the simple or common garden reason of having quite enough with a woman-child who appears to be more trouble than she is worth: banging desks & walking out of meetings only a month ago when she doesn't get her own way. No matter how good she is as a councillor, someone who falls out with fellow nationalists to the extent of refusing to sit next to them in the council chamber like she's still in bloody primary school is a liability to any party - and one they would be well rid of. I agree, divorce isn't a big deal. But there was obviously something going in the background that SNP HQ weren't happy about, as THEY withdrew him, not the branch: From The Herald: It is understood he was initially approved as a potential candidate, but party headquarters then withdrew their approval last week. The reason for the U-turn in unclear. However Dr Majid, a wealthy property developer known locally as Jimmy, had been the subject of recent tabloid coverage over his long-running and acrimonious divorce. Councillor Majids outburst that Councillor O'Brien "would be facing the wrath and fury of half a billion Muslims, and would be facing the repercussions of insulting Islam" isn't denied. I said it provided context. I suppose it's not for me to judge, as Councillor Majid himself said "“We are the ones who are the brunt of this. So we decide if somebody is a racist. You don’t decide if somebody’s a racist." There have been plenty of allegations but no proof from either party. Having said that, how do you prove something hasn't happened. The bad mouthing of SNP colleagues, policy or the party by members is expressly forbidden by the party, so I wonder what the motivation was of the person who ran to the most bitterly anti SNP tabloid there is to leak this. As far as I can see Sheena McCullough is forbidden by party rules from even commenting on this, yet she is quoted as confirming it to the Record. What exactly are Councillor O'Briens motivations? It seems to me from reading his comments that he was unhappy at the allegations made against him by, as he says, Dick Lyle. It seems to me he is not happy with this and would like to see Mr Lyle exposed, as he continually refers to it. That's my reading of it. As regards the whataboutery, guilty as charged. But if you are going to paint folk as having their nose in the trough, remember that it's a fairly big trough. Having the SNP campaign against Westminster sleaze and then see them slip into the same habits (employing family members for example) is disheartening, and I disagree with it fully, as I suspect do you. The whole business could easily have waited until after the elections, then the guilty parties publicly crucified as part of the SNP showing they were indeed a new broom ready to sweep out local council corruption - even within their own ranks. There's no sign of that happening at all. That's a pipe dream. The wall of silence from HQ doesn't bear that out. As for Majid having no involvement, that may be the case. From what I can see scores are being settled across North Lanarkshire, and his involvement may be entirely coincidental. As for Mears, while you might want to think it's old news, it's a running sore within Labour never mind the SNP. The repercussions of this will run for some time yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitburn Vale Posted February 20, 2016 Share Posted February 20, 2016 Straight from the smash the snpeeee Hope they had a good ole sing song And who's behind Smash the SNP....The Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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