Colkitto Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Sturgeon won me over when she trounced Lamont and Carmichael in the referendum debates. I was a little worried she'd never be more than an attack dog, but I'm delighted that she's actually become the reasonable, smart, competent operator that has essentially won hearts and minds across the world. I like Salmond, but I think there is and was a danger that he'd come to coast along on his own reputation, and assume that his skills in debating would be enough to convince people our country should be something other than a part of another state. Sturgeon appears to realise that being personable and charming rather than a shrewd Jack-the-lad is necessary for building support. I suspect Salmond became convinced that he was *right* (and on the subject of independence I think he was) and that that conviction was best expressed by impressing it upon people rather than trying a more persuasive approach. Still, the abuse Salmond withstood from vindictive, terrified BritNats without turning a hair or crying to the papers qualifies him as a hell of a statesman - probably the only great Scottish statesman I can think of in living memory. Good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Lots of SNP arse kissing going on in this topic so i will say donald dewar the very first minister of scotland and advocate of scottish devolution. Apt choice kev. Labour are living on past glories because it's all they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Psychosis Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Sturgeon won me over when she trounced Lamont and Carmichael in the referendum debates. I was a little worried she'd never be more than an attack dog, but I'm delighted that she's actually become the reasonable, smart, competent operator that has essentially won hearts and minds across the world. I like Salmond, but I think there is and was a danger that he'd come to coast along on his own reputation, and assume that his skills in debating would be enough to convince people our country should be something other than a part of another state. Sturgeon appears to realise that being personable and charming rather than a shrewd Jack-the-lad is necessary for building support. I suspect Salmond became convinced that he was *right* (and on the subject of independence I think he was) and that that conviction was best expressed by impressing it upon people rather than trying a more persuasive approach. Still, the abuse Salmond withstood from vindictive, terrified BritNats without turning a hair or crying to the papers qualifies him as a hell of a statesman - probably the only great Scottish statesman I can think of in living memory. I agree with a lot of that, except your description of Salmond as a statesman (which actually seems at odds with everything else you say about him). Sturgeon is far more statesmanlike than he has ever been, its part of the reason she is so effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Sannox Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Such a difficult choice, so much quality and talent in Scottish politics these days. We are very lucky. I thought at first, this guy.... Then I thought maybe this chap... But after a lot of pondering, I'm going with Peter Perfect. His greatest trait being that he's not opportunistic in the slightest.... Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Glen Minter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Such a difficult choice, so much quality and talent in Scottish politics these days. We are very lucky. I thought at first, this guy.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528931.087083.jpg Then I thought maybe this chap... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528987.591236.jpg But after a lot of pondering, I'm going with Peter Perfect. His greatest trait being that he's not opportunistic in the slightest.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457529164.420086.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app https://uk.linkedin.com/in/glenminter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I agree with a lot of that, except your description of Salmond as a statesman (which actually seems at odds with everything else you say about him). Sturgeon is far more statesmanlike than he has ever been, its part of the reason she is so effective. I was being a little pedantic - Sturgeon is arguably a better statesperson, and undoubtedly the best Scottish stateswoman I've ever seen. Of course Kezia is snapping at her heels ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Such a difficult choice, so much quality and talent in Scottish politics these days. We are very lucky. I thought at first, this guy.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528931.087083.jpg Then I thought maybe this chap... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528987.591236.jpg But after a lot of pondering, I'm going with Peter Perfect. His greatest trait being that he's not opportunistic in the slightest.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457529164.420086.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app Seek help: http://bfy.tw/4f4y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Such a difficult choice, so much quality and talent in Scottish politics these days. We are very lucky. I thought at first, this guy.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528931.087083.jpg Then I thought maybe this chap... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457528987.591236.jpg But after a lot of pondering, I'm going with Peter Perfect. His greatest trait being that he's not opportunistic in the slightest.... ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1457529164.420086.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Pie & Bovril mobile app Reported for racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I think both of them complimented each other very well and the order of things was pretty good. Politically, both are very similar but Salmond is the establishment anti-establishment rebel (I don't know if that makes sense but I'm sure you get my drift). Without him, the party would not have reached the heights it did as he managed to unite the whole party together and be pretty courageous about how they took on Labour in Scotland. His weakness (and one of his strengths) is that he maybe pissed too many people off. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and would have him back in an instant but he does have a habit of picking an unnecessary battle every so often and this pisses off some people. I don't think Sturgeon would have made the breakthrough that Salmond would have done but she doesn't make the same silly moves that Salmond makes and I think that's better for the party now that they are an established force. Say what you want about them both - it is very common in politics for partnerships like this to spiral out of control and lead to both of them despising each other but they've both done an exceptional job of sticking together and staying professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I think both of them complimented each other very well and the order of things was pretty good. Politically, both are very similar but Salmond is the establishment anti-establishment rebel (I don't know if that makes sense but I'm sure you get my drift). Without him, the party would not have reached the heights it did as he managed to unite the whole party together and be pretty courageous about how they took on Labour in Scotland. His weakness (and one of his strengths) is that he maybe pissed too many people off. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and would have him back in an instant but he does have a habit of picking an unnecessary battle every so often and this pisses off some people. I don't think Sturgeon would have made the breakthrough that Salmond would have done but she doesn't make the same silly moves that Salmond makes and I think that's better for the party now that they are an established force. Say what you want about them both - it is very common in politics for partnerships like this to spiral out of control and lead to both of them despising each other but they've both done an exceptional job of sticking together and staying professional. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 so i will say donald dewar the very first minister of scotland and advocate of scottish devolution. Go read the title of the thread..... How would that help? The OP clearly doesn't know the difference between 'best' and 'better'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Rational Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I'm not sure if you are being serious or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Lots of SNP arse kissing going on in this topic so i will say donald dewar the very first minister of scotland and advocate of scottish devolution. But he was still a BritNat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 But he was still a BritNat. No one can seriously believe Dewar wanted devolution because he thought it would be a great thing for Scotland, surely? It was a means of desperately trying to turn people away from the idea of Scottish sovereignty. He said this himself when he claimed that getting an assembly with as little power as he could get away with would "kill Scottish nationalism stone dead". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 He said this himself when he claimed that getting an assembly with as little power as he could get away with would "kill Scottish nationalism stone dead". That was George Robertson rather than Donald Dewar, was it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Looking forward to the 'Best Overall Politician #tory' thread (with a two-option poll) to see if those nasty Nats are any better at comprehension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 That was George Robertson rather than Donald Dewar, was it not? Mea culpa - but wasn't it Dewar who induced Blair to redraw the maritime border the night before devolution was signed off to reallocate thousands of square miles of Scottish water to England, in the hopes that it would undermine any future case for independence by reducing Scotland's territories? ETA: Google throws up this https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2012/01/scotlandengland-maritime-boundaries/ And it also throws up on the same search an article about Blair himself claiming to regret letting Scots vote on devolution because it has dangerously eroded their deference to Britain and British identity. Thundercunt of a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Mea culpa - but wasn't it Dewar who induced Blair to redraw the maritime border the night before devolution was signed off to reallocate thousands of square miles of Scottish water to England, in the hopes that it would undermine any future case for independence by reducing Scotland's territories? I remember that. I'll take back whit I said re Donald Dewar. He's no a BritNat he was a flucking BritNat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Mea culpa - but wasn't it Dewar who induced Blair to redraw the maritime border the night before devolution was signed off to reallocate thousands of square miles of Scottish water to England, in the hopes that it would undermine any future case for independence by reducing Scotland's territories? Fortunately I was too young to be following politics in the 90s, so I'm afraid I can't comment with any authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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