Striking Options

[Gordopolis]

Griffiths has always been pretty good in Europe to be fair as well.

His record in Europe is alright, but I've seen most of his games there and IMO he has mostly bordered between average and that 'out of his depth' level he has done so far for Scotland. He's certainly never previously reached tonight's heights performance-wise in Europe.

[AMMjag]

I don't think there's much between Fletcher, Naismith, McCormack or Griffiths anymore. Form should be the deciding factor between them and I imagine Griffiths is always likely to have the edge due to playing in Scotland and being more likely to score consistently. He's also our best shout at a longer term option for future campaigns, so i've no problem with seeing him rack up more caps over the next year.

The issue he'll have to get used to though is not having the ball as often when playing in the Scotland team. We're not very good in possession at all and we seem to set the team up to accept that, so I can see him eventually being given the old 'Kenny Miller headless chicken' label when he tries to involve himself in games.

 

[1320Lichtie]

His record in Europe is alright, but I've seen most of his games there and IMO he has mostly bordered between average and that 'out of his depth' level he has done so far for Scotland. He's certainly never previously reached tonight's heights performance-wise in Europe.

Don't agree

Griffiths has always played pretty well in Europe I think personally, just been in shiter teams. Although maybe not had such a standout game? Sure he had a similar game against Malmö but we all know how that ended lol.

Got the ability in his left foot and finishing to do well at any level, also very pacey. He has come on leaps and bounds in last 1/2 year but he was always pretty decent. Can't see past him for that role up top. 25, perfect age, hopefully gets at least 6 games in the champions league and more in the Europa. Should help his Scotland cause.

[AMMjag]

6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Don't agree

Griffiths has always played pretty well in Europe I think personally, just been in shiter teams. Although maybe not had such a standout game? Sure he had a similar game against Malmö but we all know how that ended lol.

Got the ability in his left foot and finishing to do well at any level, also very pacey. He has come on leaps and bounds in last 1/2 year but he was always pretty decent. Can't see past him for that role up top. 25, perfect age, hopefully gets at least 6 games in the champions league and more in the Europa. Should help his Scotland cause.

His record in European competition proper is played 9 scored 1, and given Celtic's recent European record it's safe to say he hasn't made many other match-winning contributions to make up for that. There's a gulf between playing in a team that's in near complete control and for a team that's more on the backfoot, that Griffiths clearly still has to come to terms with if he's to be successful for Scotland.

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Firhill Road said:

The issue he'll have to get used to though is not having the ball as often when playing in the Scotland team. We're not very good in possession at all and we seem to set the team up to accept that, so I can see him eventually being given the old 'Kenny Miller headless chicken' label when he tries to involve himself in games.

 

He spent about two years playing as the lone striker in a godawful Hibs team, and he scored plenty of goals.  His movement off the ball is actually quite similar to Miller's, but he's probably a slightly better finisher.

[Savage Henry]

His record in European competition proper is played 9 scored 1, and given Celtic's recent European record it's safe to say he hasn't made many other match-winning contributions to make up for that. There's a gulf between playing in a team that's in near complete control and for a team that's more on the backfoot, that Griffiths clearly still has to come to terms with if he's to be successful for Scotland.

Agreed. Griffiths has never show he can make a step up. He's looked miles out of his depth at international level. He's been dreadful for Scotland and that's because he's not quite good enough. I don't think he plays particularly well for Celtic, but he scores plenty of goals. Not sure that's enough to make an international player.

He's also a rotten, racist scumbag, lest we forget, and I'd question whether he had the mentality to play international football.

[RandomGuy.]

Folk are being utterly blinded by his goal record, and by desperation. He has 7 caps for Scotland, including appearances against Qatar and Luxembourg, and looks like a lost boy at that level. Good club level players can't always make the transition. 

[1320Lichtie]

Folk are being utterly blinded by his goal record, and by desperation. He has 7 caps for Scotland, including appearances against Qatar and Luxembourg, and looks like a lost boy at that level. Good club level players can't always make the transition. 

A whole 7 caps by the age of 25, hardly that much. And think they're just seeing his obvious quality, he's had an hour against Denmark, 15 minutes against Georgia and 30 minutes against Qatar in the last 2 year... He's came on leaps and bounds in that time whilst others have regressed massively in the same position. We need to move on from Fletcher and Naismith at some point.

Eta: and I can't remember the Luxembourg game but how did he look like a lost boy in the Qatar game? The only things I remember him doing were a cracking ball across the box for Russell and scoring a goal that was ruled off. He played decent. Certainly not worse than anyone else

[oneteaminglasgow]

Hard not to slate a striker whos scored 8 goals in 28 internationals, or 2 in 26 if we dont count the Gibraltar games 

Yet absolutely fawn over one who's got 0 in 10 if we exclude his goals for no reason whatsoever.

[forameus]

8 hours ago, dogmc said:

The reason that some people talk about s fletcher 'bringing midfielders into the game' is that it's a woolly unquantifiable concept which allows them to continue to sook Strachans boaby. When you ask about things like goals.....that's not what forwards are for anymore. When you ask about assists.....that's also not what forwards are for. Midfielders that rely on an oak Tree to bring them into the game probably aren't that hot. I'm old enough to remember it being midfielders who brought forwards into the game.....guys like anya and Snodgrass for example...who could provide supply to a regular goalscorer.... Still its easy to say it's the players who aren't good enough. Iceland must be gutted a manager of Strachan's standing isn't mustering their copious resources of world class players. When we are desperately trying to shitfest against rooney etc I'm sure a new set of excuses will be invented to justify Strachan failing again iceland having previously strolled England will somehow be irrelevant....

The reason people talk about it is because it's absolutely correct.  It's the whole reason he's there.  When you ask about goals, I agree he should score more.  

It's funny you bring up you being old enough to remember when midfielders brought forwards into the game.  Football has moved on.  It's no longer as simple as that, and there's no one way for a team to set up.  

You then mention Snodgrass could provide supply - not sure if you remember, but he wasn't available for pretty much the entire campaign.  Maybe now he's back they'll play differently given he's an absolute must-pick.  But what do you expect them to do?  Play like that when he's not available just because at some point he'll come back?  Anya possibly, but he never seemed the creative type in the games he's played for us.  

And your last part says it all.  Iceland beat England months ago in a completely different situation, so obviously we should be going out against a team with far larger resources with all guns blazing.  Brilliant plan.

[troopio]

I honestly cannot stand Griffiths, find him greedy and agree he has done little so far in Scotland Shirt HOWEVER can we really afford to ignore a Striker who is clearly improving all the time, is high in confidence and is actually playing and scoring at a reasonable level? Strachan should have been asked what he made of it all to see what cock and bull excuse he would come up with.........Quite simply if he fires Celtic into the Group Stages he has to be the first choice striker going into the game against Malta, it doesn't matter whats went on before, its important we get off to a good start and therefore players in form and high in confidence are a must. The horse Fletcher hasn't even scored for his new Club yet we are somehow expected to stomach he is first choice?

[forameus]

1 minute ago, troopio said:

I honestly cannot stand Griffiths, find him greedy and agree he has done little so far in Scotland Shirt HOWEVER can we really afford to ignore a Striker who is clearly improving all the time, is high in confidence and is actually playing and scoring at a reasonable level? Strachan should have been asked what he made of it all to see what cock and bull excuse he would come up with.........Quite simply if he fires Celtic into the Group Stages he has to be the first choice striker going into the game against Malta, it doesn't matter whats went on before, its important we get off to a good start and therefore players in form and high in confidence are a must. The horse Fletcher hasn't even scored for his new Club yet we are somehow expected to stomach he is first choice?

Strachan probably would've answered the same way he would have done before the game.  It's not as if it's a sudden surprise that Griffiths is scoring like that.  The fact remains that he has looked out of his depth for Scotland in his limited chances, so imagine the opinion is that he's probably going to be a consistent squad player.  The only thing that I imagine would massively change his opinion is if he takes the Group Stage by storm.  It's not all about throwing the guy who has scored the most goals out and that's that.  Griffiths and Fletcher (and Rhodes, and pretty much every forward we have) bring different things to the table.  It all depends what he thinks he needs at that point.  Griffiths will get his chance.

It's old ground, but he'll be first choice in pretty much every game we play when fit, unless someone has an absolute dream of a season or a new previously unknown player comes in.  As I said in the other thread, I'd like to see Griffiths (or Rhodes if he's playing regularly) start furthest forward, and have Fletcher in behind him.  Just like we played against Denmark early in the game.  Fletcher looked a lot more comfortable receiving the ball and looking forward to find someone already beyond him.  Perhaps the same against Lithuania if it goes well against Malta, before we revert to type against Slovakia away.

Because against Slovakia, Slovenia and England, he remains the best option at this point in time.

[troopio]

I would be prepared to be convinced by the argument you make above about both starting but lets be honest here, with that fool in charge it is never going to happen is it? He would rather play no strikers than play 2 of them in a competitive match which matters on a more frequent basis. This is why its always going to be one or the other and never both sadly.

[forameus]

29 minutes ago, troopio said:

I would be prepared to be convinced by the argument you make above about both starting but lets be honest here, with that fool in charge it is never going to happen is it? He would rather play no strikers than play 2 of them in a competitive match which matters on a more frequent basis. This is why its always going to be one or the other and never both sadly.

It already did happen.  You think he just played it for a laugh in a friendly?  And think it's more likely he'd play no strikers - something he's never done - rather than that?  Come on...

[Tommy Nooka]

On 8/8/2016 at 10:18, troopio said:

So Formeus how did the best of a bad bunch Fletcher do yesterday ha?..........Joking aside he got injured so cant slate him at all, the most expensive Scot ever was he even playing??

Of course it is only early days!

One thing though, being an Aberdeen Fan from a Celtic Mad Family, I watched the Celtic game with my Dad and based on what I saw I can honestly say that if I was basing it purely on that one game then Griffiths is NOT the answer. Granted his pace and ball set up the winner so that ticks certain boxes I guess but and I have seen this with him before I do not think I have ever seen a more greedier striker than him. Now, of course you have to be greedy and single minded as a striker but my point is his level of greediness is that kind of immature petulant greed whereby he just keeps trying to do the same thing time and time again. I get he scored 40 goals last season fair dos but really does he have to take a shot EVERY time he has the ball, there is nothing worse than a player taking an aimless shot and wasting it when there are 3/4 in better positions than him. I would understand this from a younger player but the guy is 25/26 now and played enough games to understand how it works. Do not get me wrong I am all for Strachan picking someone other than the carthorse Fletcher or the even bigger Carthorse Martin but unless Griffiths can learn to be a team player then he isn't one Ill be looking to clamour for again in a hurry.

f**k sake Troopio, what difference a game makes eh? 

[Officer Barbrady]

I don't see the correlation between believing we can beat England, and simply 'going all guns blazing' in order to do it. A sustained, thought-out and rehearsed game plan will more than suffice, instead if this dunderheid 'have a good go' nonsense people spout. The lack of intelligence among our population is terrifying, almost as much as the dreadful need to feel vindicated by how much we can keep the opponents down to. 

[sergie's no1 fan]

I don't see the correlation between believing we can beat England, and simply 'going all guns blazing' in order to do it. A sustained, thought-out and rehearsed game plan will more than suffice, instead if this dunderheid 'have a good go' nonsense people spout. The lack of intelligence among our population is terrifying, almost as much as the dreadful need to feel vindicated by how much we can keep the opponents down to. 

England will be in transition. Sam will be trying to put his stamp on the team and find his best startling 11. I fully expect them to win the group by a few points but they are there to be shot at, same as Germany were but that's using hindsight. Don't think many predicted Germany to stutter over the finish line in our group.

[Officer Barbrady]

I didn't mean a gameplan and that would suffice in winning, but it would do so in keeping us competitive. It may have been better to start with them, as i felt we missed a great chance in Dortmund to catch Germany cold, but it is what it is....and it's also only two games, the same as against everyone else. This shouldn't cloud the judgement of Strachan or the players, if they are serious about qualification. 

[sergie's no1 fan]

I didn't mean a gameplan and that would suffice in winning, but it would do so in keeping us competitive. It may have been better to start with them, as i felt we missed a great chance in Dortmund to catch Germany cold, but it is what it is....and it's also only two games, the same as against everyone else. This shouldn't cloud the judgement of Strachan or the players, if they are serious about qualification. 

Yeah totally, I think we will be competitive. Looking back not many teams have it easy against us when we are at home.Even the famous Spain team wobbled for 10 minutes at Hampden. It's about getting the balance right because England are very dangerous on the counter.

[forameus]

21 minutes ago, Officer Barbrady said:

I don't see the correlation between believing we can beat England, and simply 'going all guns blazing' in order to do it. A sustained, thought-out and rehearsed game plan will more than suffice, instead if this dunderheid 'have a good go' nonsense people spout. The lack of intelligence among our population is terrifying, almost as much as the dreadful need to feel vindicated by how much we can keep the opponents down to. 

Absolutely.  If we go out "all guns blazing", we will lose.  Simple as that.  But much as the black and white brigade would love it not to be, there's a middle ground between that and going out super defensively.  

There are ways to get at England, or at least there were.  They're going to be a bit of an unknown quantity under a new manager.