Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Archie McSquackle]

I think the advantage is in giving a new manager more time to identify and bring in new players over the summer.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Archie McSquackle said:

If he does go, I've given up guessing who we'll go for as it's never an obvious choice.

Give or take you can generally profile what we look for: 40-50, some experience - likely with 1 or 2 jobs behind them plus coaching, we generally don't make appointments who have managed at other Scottish clubs and I'm pretty sure you have to go back as far as Davies for a former (or current) player.

Of our recent managers Brown and McGhee are really the only ones who don't fit that description in terms of age and experience, although we seemed to go through a phase in the 90s - 00s of giving folk their first management jobs. Understandably we haven't done that since Malpas.

Also AFAIK McGhee's the only manager we've had to have 2 stints in the job.

Since McLean;

(94-98): McLeish -35, Previous club managed; n/a
(98): Kampman - 43, Previous clubs; Reipas (?), MyPa47 (?)
(98-01): Davies - 34, previous club; n/a
(01-02): Black - 39, previous club; n/a
(02-06): Butcher -43, previous clubs; Coventry (33.33%), Sunderland (30.23%)
(06-07): Malpas -43, previous clubs; n/a
(07-09): McGhee - 50, previous clubs; Reading (43.2%), Leicester (31.4%), Wolves (40.9%), Millwall (46.0%), Brighton (28.8%)
(09): Gannon - 40, previous clubs; Dundalk (36.1%), Stockport (43.4%)
(09-10): Brown - 69, previous clubs; Clyde (33.17%), Scotland u21s (43.18%), Scotland (45.07%), Preston (33.96%) 
(10-14): McCall - 46, previous club; Bradford (34.6% win)
(14-15): Baraclough - 44, previous clubs; Scunthorpe (23.5%), Sligo (55.0%) 
(15-17): McGhee - 58, previous clubs; Reading (43.2%), Leicester (31.4%), Wolves (40.9%), Millwall (46.0%), Brighton (28.8%), Motherwell (39.8%), Aberdeen (27.4%), Bristol Rovers (26.7%)
(17-20): Robinson - 42, previous club; Oldham (21.2%)
(21-present): Alexander - 49, previous clubs; Fleetwood (38.6%), Scunthorpe (46.9%), Salford (48.2%)

Edited May 2, 2022 by capt_oats

[CoF]

I was thinking last night that the only way he'll get punted soon is if he's hit the point where he's genuinely run out of ideas and the players are no longer listening to him. If the players are still on board, then he stays. 

One win in 15 is awful, but as a few others have touched on, there's reasons (for the board at least) to keep him:-

- His first 12 months were excellent vs 4 months of shite. 3/4 vs 1/4 of his time in charge. Not a bad 'bigger picture'. 

- The club invested in a change in philosophy in terms of how the team is built, they invested in a long term project with alexander. That requires having faith through thick and thin. 

- They've just extended his contract. Compensation could be significant. It may even be a bigger financial hit than any drop off in season ticket sales. 

- We're not a sacking club. It's a cliche, but I really don't want us to turn into one of those clubs who punt folk at the first bad run. We'll always get higher calibre of candidates if we promote ourselves as a club that can show faith in a manager. 

 

I don't envy the board just now, if all is well in the squad then there's no decision to make but if senior players are starting to knock at the door then there's a real problem for them. 

[Ron Aldo]

If we are punting Alexander now I can only assume its so we can try and nick Mitchell van der Gaag before he becomes the assistant at Man United.

Failing that, what's Simo up to these days?

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

If we are punting Alexander now I can only assume its so we can try and nick Mitchell van der Gaag before he becomes the assistant at Man United.

Failing that, what's Simo up to these days?

I looked it up a couple of weeks ago he's got a job in Finland. Currently top of the league in the Veikkausliga.

He seems to have bounced back from his relegation with Tromsø in Norway.

Edited May 2, 2022 by capt_oats

['WellDel]

Not that I don't think it should, but I just don't see this happening today.

From the club's point of view, they've fully invested and financially backed his vision and restructuring, including the arrival of many of his own staff. With objectives having been met, I'd think they would tough it out and give him at least the first few months of the new season to see if things improve, despite the fans protestations. 

From Alexander's viewpoint, an 'amicable parting of the ways' at the end of the season, similar to Mellon from Utd, would be more palatable and respectable looking on his C.V. , and being the type of club we are, if they have decided to get rid, I think Flao et al would be the types to grant him this more aesthetically positive departure.

As I say though, unless there's been some major dressing room uprising, or he's done a Robinson and admitted he's got nothing left to try ( he hasn't, i doubt he's the sort to admit defeat easily) , they're all probably sat at home enjoying a lovely Bank Holiday Monday with their families, while us numpties debate over a meeting which isn't even happening. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by 'WellDel

[Mr. Brightside]

[Handsome_Devil]

10 minutes ago, 'WellDel said:

As I say though, unless there's been some major dressing room uprising, or he's done a Robinson and admitted he's got nothing left to try ( he hasn't, i doubt he's the sort to admit defeat easily) , they're all probably sat at home enjoying a lovely Bank Holiday Monday with their families, while us numpties debate over a meeting which isn't even happening. 

Must admit that exact thought occurred to me as well. I suspect everyone going a little crazy and win/lose the next three games, a few weeks off will do everyone the world of good.

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

As I said yesterday a mutual agreement probably sits quite well from both parties POV.

Still be surprised if it happened like...

Would be curious to see who might be in the frame given the circumstances and also the fact we have a fairly clear profile we aim for.

Appreciate you gave it a caveat it just all seems a bit premature. The flurry of activity this morning is off the back of one post on SOL from hardly a prolific contributor, not sure if it is wishful thinking over reality. I don't think McMahon or Flao are anywhere the thinking of many of the fans even if their eyes are bleeding watching this and been left wondering about some of the batshit crazy calls too.

As I said on Saturday, those views are expressed by the management, chairman and fans of at least 8 clubs in the top division. It really is unique this season that countless draws and the round robin (A beats B, B beats C and C beats A) that have bobbed along for 35 game weeks.

It would certainly be off brand if we were considering it. The club seemed to be backing Robinson both on the field and after his animated discussion in Princes Street. Are we beyond that territory with Grezza yet?

Also, look at the current Hibs and past Dundee, St Mirren and Aberdeen new managers threads on here. Not many names who we could realistically attract that I'd be biting anyone's hand off for.

Flao and McMahon have been pretty astute with the running of the club and I don't know if they see any benefit in jettisoning him at present. If they would rather have a new man at the helm then the prudent thing to do is wait for an approach to speak from another club rather than a push with the financial penalty associated.

For the talk of giving him access to the transfer market if his card is marked. Ultimately he decides who he wants, however Flao does the business and could feasibly scupper moves by not agreeing or insisting on certain things as part of the contract if they were buying time and saving funds for the next guy.

[Kapowzer]

49 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

(21-present): Alexander - 49, previous clubs; Fleetwood (38.6%), Scunthorpe (46.9%), Salford (48.2%)

Motherwell (39%)

[YassinMoutaouakil]

We've got a game on Saturday that, if we win, would make Europe pretty hard to f**k up,  even for us. Stranger things have happened but I think it's incredibly unlikely that Motherwell sack a manager in this scenario. 

Edit- looking at the table again I've changed "incredibly hard to f**k up" to just "pretty hard". If we lose in Dingwall I can maybe see some sort of mutual consent deal 

Edited May 2, 2022 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Kapowzer]

Two very good posts over in the Alexander thread on SOL (yes who would have thought it).

One citing the bloated squad it was felt he probably had to carry this season due to covid. I only mention it as it's not been mentioned much in this one and worth considering.

The other by Hope Springs tries to impart a degree of calm in all the red mist.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Kapowzer

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

We've got a game on Saturday that, if we win, would make Europe pretty hard to f**k up,  even for us. 

Dunno about that. Win the next two and we're almost certainly in, don't beat Hearts and I think we're out. Which is hardly a gimmie.

If you assume everyone loses to the OF in the next two while we beat County and even draw with Hearts, it's 44, 44, 41 going into the last day. We'll inevitably lose at Celtic, County beat United who have nothing to play for and we're sixth on GD.

And I'm not convinced one of them won't pinch something from the OF, Rangers will surely begin jogging a bit in the league now to recover between the EL and the cup final.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 minute ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Dunno about that. Win the next two and we're almost certainly in, don't beat Hearts and I think we're out. Which is hardly a gimmie.

If you assume everyone loses to the OF in the next two while we beat County and even draw with Hearts, it's 44, 44, 41 going into the last day. We'll inevitably lose at Celtic, County beat United who have nothing to play for and we're sixth on GD.

And I'm not convinced one of them won't pinch something from the OF, Rangers will surely begin jogging a bit in the league now to recover between the EL and the cup final.

Yeah I keep forgetting County picked up a point at Tynecastle for some reason,  that plus our GD has made the equation more difficult than my initial fag-packet maths.

I'm now convinced we're going to do just enough to be in with a shout on the last day that Bevis is playing the last half hour up top at Parkhead.

 

['WellDel]

5 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Dunno about that. Win the next two and we're almost certainly in, don't beat Hearts and I think we're out. Which is hardly a gimmie.

If you assume everyone loses to the OF in the next two while we beat County and even draw with Hearts, it's 44, 44, 41 going into the last day. We'll inevitably lose at Celtic, County beat United who have nothing to play for and we're sixth on GD.

And I'm not convinced one of them won't pinch something from the OF, Rangers will surely begin jogging a bit in the league now to recover between the EL and the cup final.

Aye, Utd and County definitely have a chance of taking something from their games against Rangers, as they will undoubtedly rotate in the league with an eye on their European and Cup aspirations, considering the league is now gone. Which will only further exacerbate our capitulation against their 10 men last week.

[Kapowzer]

4 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm now convinced we're going to do just enough to be in with a shout on the last day that Bevis is playing the last half hour up top at Parkhead.

 

Las as caretaker has to make up for Accies away in his swansong

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Apologies if this was mentioned earlier but it's just dawned on me that we've lost 3-1 to ten men twice in a few months.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Kapowzer said:

Appreciate you gave it a caveat it just all seems a bit premature. The flurry of activity this morning is off the back of one post on SOL from hardly a prolific contributor, not sure if it is wishful thinking over reality. I don't think McMahon or Flao are anywhere the thinking of many of the fans even if their eyes are bleeding watching this and been left wondering about some of the batshit crazy calls too.

As I said on Saturday, those views are expressed by the management, chairman and fans of at least 8 clubs in the top division. It really is unique this season that countless draws and the round robin (A beats B, B beats C and C beats A) that have bobbed along for 35 game weeks.

It would certainly be off brand if we were considering it. The club seemed to be backing Robinson both on the field and after his animated discussion in Princes Street. Are we beyond that territory with Grezza yet?

Also, look at the current Hibs and past Dundee, St Mirren and Aberdeen new managers threads on here. Not many names who we could realistically attract that I'd be biting anyone's hand off for.

Flao and McMahon have been pretty astute with the running of the club and I don't know if they see any benefit in jettisoning him at present. If they would rather have a new man at the helm then the prudent thing to do is wait for an approach to speak from another club rather than a push with the financial penalty associated.

For the talk of giving him access to the transfer market if his card is marked. Ultimately he decides who he wants, however Flao does the business and could feasibly scupper moves by not agreeing or insisting on certain things as part of the contract if they were buying time and saving funds for the next guy.

Aye, to be clear I'm not advocating for it nor do I necessarily expect it to happen.

I guess there's just a devil's advocate position where there's an outcome that suits both Alexander and the club. Not unlike the Mellon/United parting that @'WellDel mentions.

33 minutes ago, Kapowzer said:

One citing the bloated squad it was felt he probably had to carry this season due to covid. I only mention it as it's not been mentioned much in this one and worth considering.

The other by Hope Springs tries to impart a degree of calm in all the red mist.

Not read the post on SO but is our squad actually that bloated? You can definitely make the argument that he's not using the squad he has available but ironically that's in part what seems to have fucked up our season.

We've 28 first team players listed on the first team page of which 2 are out on loan so we've 26 available. https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/squad/first-team/

We had 35 players or whatever last season and Robinson would regularly have 27, 28+ players kicking about on the books with a bunch that he'd have given up on inside a month or two.

IMO a normal squad size comes in at around 24 bodies. We're 2 over as it stands.

For comparison:

United - 33 with 10 on loan = 23 available https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/team/first-team
Aberdeen - 23 https://www.afc.co.uk/teams/1st-team/
Hibs - 26 https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/squads/mens-first-team
Hearts - 23 with 2 on loan = 21 available https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/squads/first-team/playing-squad
Livingston - 25 (plus Gary Maley and Marvin Bartley) https://livingstonfc.co.uk/team/men/playing-squad/
St Mirren - 26 https://www.stmirren.com/teams/first-team/first-team-squad
Dundee - 30 https://dundeefc.co.uk/team/first-team
St Johnstone - 30 https://www.perthstjohnstonefc.co.uk/squads/first-team
County - 26 https://www.rosscountyfootballclub.co.uk/squads

Edited May 2, 2022 by capt_oats

[welldaft]

We really need to beat County and pick up at least a point v Hearts. The other way around and it is still feasible.

Ideally we need to have both County and United realising if they lose on the final day they could miss out. We 100% will not pick up any points v Celtic on the last day. 

I hope I am wrong but with what is at stake for County (Europe for 1st time in history), the fact they are at home and then add in our defence (with Jake Carroll in it) means I cannot see us picking up 3 points. Luck seems to have deserted us. We had it in spades early on in the season. 

 

[Busta Nut]

4 hours ago, Archie McSquackle said:

Chat on Steelmen is Alexander is getting punted today. From a reliable source supposedly.

This rumour started yesterday somewhere and I think it's just grew arms and legs. There is probably some one giggling into there phone at how far it's come.