Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Casagolda]

33 minutes ago, MP_MFC said:

The board have a lot to answer for with how they handled the summer 

For me, it all comes back to this and our utter shambles of a summer. 

Said it before you either back Alexander, or sack Alexander. They did neither, they simply buried their head in the sand until the decision was eventually made for them. It was weak and it’s cost us. 

Regardless of what you think of Alexander, does anyone really think he said in the pre-season planning meetings that after 3 wins in 5 months, he felt we only really needed 4 ‘key’ additions for this season. A 30 something right back on a 1 year deal, a journeyman midfielder, another back up goalkeeper oh and Josh Morris- that one’s a deal breaker!

Or knowing they might have to get rid of him if we got off to a poor start, did they limit his spending and leave him ill- prepared to do the job at hand. Which has subsequently fucked Hammell as well, taking over a squad unfit for purpose a day before the season started. 

Which is why with only weeks of August left, he was scraping about in the ‘desperate punts’ section. Which is how we ended up wasting money on Aarons and Moult and why we’re now left relying on Connor Shields to play 90 mins. 

It’s a mess but for me not one of the managers making. Could Hammell be doing more? Possibly. However he’s a rookie manager in his first job, they knew the risk going in and he was always going to make his mistakes along the way. 

He had just 6 outfield subs last night including a couple of 16 year olds, Josh Morris and Barry Maguire. Anyone who genuinely thinks 1 or 2 new additions will cut it is obviously the same person that was in charge of our summer recruitment drive. 

[Busta Nut]

42 minutes ago, welldaft said:

 

I was bemused he took McKinstry off as he had a decent game and was a threat throughout. But from his aftermatch interview it appears it was a precautionary move as he felt a niggle.

 

Twice last night McKinstry was played in behind the fullback and twice he cut back letting the full back get back goal side cos he wouldn't use his left foot. Needs to work on that.

[AdamMFC]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

The bottom four will stay the same and you need to assume United will spend money and do enough. So the bottom two is between us, Killie and County.

Predicting who'll end up where in that league of three is rather pointless till the end of the window.

We're rotten but we're also only two-three players away from being good enough for 10th. Trouble is everyone else will think that of themselves too...

I said this to the guy who sits next to me. As soon as the window opens I fully expect them and County to throw money at the problem to make it go away.

As well as hopefully bringing in a few players, unfortunately it'll be no more than that, going by Hammells comments it's important we do all we can to keep Penney beyond January because if we don't the drop off in quality to the next LB will be terrifying.

[welldaft]

43 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Twice last night McKinstry was played in behind the fullback and twice he cut back letting the full back get back goal side cos he wouldn't use his left foot. Needs to work on that.

Plus his attempt at closing down Polworth was poor. He is a young attacker but he ran out and half turned his back. Instead of giving 100% and throwing himself to try and block the shot.

Good summary above from Casagolda.  A lot of poor decisions and timing of decisions left us with an uphill battle from the get go. It is hard to lay the blame for that at Hammell. 

I still think we have a decent 11 - 13 players and for 70 minutes last night it showed. Maybe I am in denial but I still felt Killie looked and played a lot poorer than us.  Comic cuts defending and a worldy gave them a point they scarcely deserved.  

Be good to see the back of 2022 football wise. Hopefully 2023 we can pick up and stop shooting ourselves in the foot all the time.  Wishful thinking maybe !

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I don't want to stick the boot into Hammell too much as he's obviously been dealt a shite hand and there's nothing to say he won't develop into a decent manager over time. The problem for me though is that we've probably got maybe the 9th(?) best squad in the league IMO, being led by the least experienced manager in the division. That could be a pretty big fucking leveller in games against Ross County and Killie etc.

With all that being said, at around the 70 minute mark last night  I honestly thought we were more likely to win 4 or 5-0 than drop points, so who the f**k knows.

[capt_oats]

As I said in the match thread I was away having a nice time at the famous Barrowland Ballroom last night and as it goes avoided the score until well after full time so I have absolutely no opinion on the game itself.

What I would say is that pre-match I was absolutely convinced we'd lose that so the fact that we didn't I'm still *extremely quiet voice* "yay!".

Also, to update the running total we're now +1 points based on the same fixtures in the first round So that's nice.

Spoiler

31/07 - St Mirren (W) - 3 pts
06/08 - St Johnstone (L) - 0 pts
13/08 - Aberdeen (W) - 3 pts
20/08 - Livingston (W) - 3 pts
27/08 - Kilmarnock (L) - 0 pts
03/09 - Dundee Utd (X) - 1 pt
01/10 - Celtic (L) - 0 pts
04/10 - Ross County (W) - 3 pts
08/10 - Hibs (L) - 0 pts
16/10 - Rangers (L) - 0 pts

Total - 13 points

22/10 - Aberdeen (L) - 0 pts (-3)
29/10 - Dundee United (W) - 3 pts (+2)
06/11 - Hearts (L) - 0 pts (NC)
09/11 - Celtic (L) - 0 pts (NC)
12/11 - St Johnstone (X) - 1 pt (+1)
23/12 - Kilmarnock (X) - 1 pt (+1)

Total - 5 points

That puts us +1 from the same fixtures from the first round of games.

We're 7 points down on last season after the same number of games and have scored 1 goal more and conceded 1 fewer:

You can't ignore the context though:

2-0 up against a 10 man Killie with 20 to go then it's absolutely fucking criminal not to win. The fact that we also lost (having come back from 2-0 down) to a 10 man Hearts side when we were level with a couple of minutes to go isn't a good look for Hammell.

Since the start of season week in, week out we've had Hammell talking about our defensive failures but we genuinely don't seem any further forward to rectifying any of that.

Tbh, I lean on the side of what @YassinMoutaouakil has said in recent posts and I strongly agree with @Busta Nut's post in the sense of what the actual f**k are we doing here?

I get that Hammell has been dealt a shite hand and as @Casagolda says you can trace it back to the summer but even still it feels like there's a strong rabbit in the headlights vibe around the club at the moment. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by capt_oats

[Allroy for Prez]

St Mirren and Hibs managing to game manage v 10 men this weekend. 

It’s almost as if it can actually be done. 

Results elsewhere are a disaster for us this weekend actually.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

When Penney goes we should put Hammell at left back and make Moult manager.

[eliphas]

Waited til today to come back and post as there are there's some heavy 'steelmenonline' vibes cutting about here now after games. Cool heads need to remain on this board at least so there is somewhere to have an adult discussion.

I was as f*cked off as the next fan last night and it's generally a bit of a head scratcher. Was pleased to see the manager and KVV talk about being unprofessional as that basically sums it up for me. We definitely seem to lack the composure in games and start making bad decisions and key times. It's up to, ultimately, the manager to sort that or figure out a way to negate it. If that means super defensive until he does then so be it. We are long enough into the season now that we should have a plan b and c, regardless of the squad.

League is far too tight still to be making bold predictions of either 'we are going down' or ' it will be fine, don't worry'.  We are 6 points from 3rd, and 5 points from the bottom with a game in hand over a handful of teams. Tight.

I'm definitely concerned about the habit we have of not being able to see games out though and as others have said also this next run of games into February will, I believe, make or break our season. Not, only that, they'll make or break the manager too.

Edited: Didn't realise the games were still going. Thanks Shankland.

Edited December 24, 2022 by eliphas

[CoF]

Still not overly worried here. 

Not defending last night, but the bigger picture is that our dropped points are mostly by fine margins. Fine margins that can usually be solved from the bench. As it stands, we’ve got almost nothing there. 

A couple of January additions that give us decent options off the bench will see us safe and looking forward to what Hammell can do with a proper pre-season and summer window. If we get it wrong though, aye… we could be in trouble this season. 

[Kapowzer]

Worst kept secret at present is Slattery. The fishal socials are full of "the beating heart of the team", "Slattery adds goals to his game", it's full on marketing mode.

Now he was always going to be looked to moved on ideally next summer, probably part of the mutual agreement to come to us in the first place. With all the off field stuff in the past year, maybe that's been pushed forward. However, I expect he's always been available from January and again in the summer. Possibly a sale price for him allows the funds needed at present to buy more get us to the summer.

If he does go he's pretty much a certain starter and Hammy has conveyed he thinks he integral.

[Phillips455]

Not overly worried but I'm feeling the pressure.

 

After the Sligo game and that whole fiasco, I would have hoped for atleast 10th and maybe a descent run in the cups. Going into a bad run of games where we just lose by a goal is the most aggregating issue. Or tossing the win away with a few terrible defending issues.

 

Maybe we get a very rare win at Ibrox??? That'd me just copping right now.

[Kapowzer]

18 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Maybe we get a very rare win at Ibrox??? That'd me just copping right now.

Based on our last visit the formula seems to be, anyone not featured for 4 months. So Robbie Mahon and Josh Morris up front.

[Doctor Manhattan]

1 hour ago, Kapowzer said:

Josh Morris up front.

[joewarkfanclub]

Despite our awful form and inability to put teams away from winning positions, we are still in touch with the pack and only a couple of wins away from breathing space. Dont expect anything midweek, but we could do with avoiding defeat at Livvy and getting a much needed home win sometime soon. The longer it goes without a win the more the pressure will mount on Hammell and the players. January will be a dedining month as to where we are at.......

[Swello]

I'm not normally a panic merchant as we've been through this (literally) more than any other team in the league and we've been in far worse positions than this - but - the most concerning thing though is that we're not totally shite ( in fact we play nice stuff at times) but we've got that habit of consistently picking up less points than we "should" and it's been like that all season so far. That tends to be the story for teams that end up in the grubber come May.

It's totally fixable (assuming we can sign an absolutely mental c**t to play in the central defence)

[capt_oats]

11 minutes ago, Swello said:

I'm not normally a panic merchant as we've been through this (literally) more than any other team in the league and we've been in far worse positions than this - but - the most concerning thing though is that we're not totally shite ( in fact we play nice stuff at times) but we've got that habit of consistently picking up less points than we "should" and it's been like that all season so far. That tends to be the story for teams that end up in the grubber come May.

It's totally fixable (assuming we can sign an absolutely mental c**t to play in the central defence)

I agree it's totally fixable but the thing that's giving me the fear is whether Hammell has the nous and whether he actually knows *how* to fix it. Like, it's all very well identifying the issues but there's that additional element of executing it.

I mean, clearly Hammell is far more experienced in the game than me; a chump who is currently lying on a sofa eating chips who has absolutely no idea what we're actually doing on the training pitch but I can't help but feel there's perhaps a correlation between our poor defensive performances and the fact that not only do we have a first time manager in the dug out but also a relatively inexperienced assistant in Brian Kerr.

That's not to throw Kerr under any sort of bus but it just feels from the outside looking in that we're thin when it comes to coaching support as well having to chuck school weans on to the bench.

I've said it before but I'd feel a lot more comfortable about things if we had something approaching an experienced head in the mix for Hammell and Kerr to lean on rather than "lazy leg is lazy".

[Handsome_Devil]

Kerr was also subject of our post-mortem in the pub last night - there's the feeling that not only do we lack experience in the dugout but also a hard b*****d who will put people against a wall and offer out the dinners etc. You could imagine the reaction of an Archie Knox, Terry Butcher type to last night...Hammell and Kerr delivering the necessary home truths in the necessary manner? Not so much.

Obviously there's more to motivation than yelling but the fact we're soft as shite in defence, midfield and (it looks like) the managerial offices does not bode well for a relegation battle.

[18May1991]

2 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I agree it's totally fixable but the thing that's giving me the fear is whether Hammell has the nous and whether he actually knows *how* to fix it. Like, it's all very well identifying the issues but there's that additional element of executing it.

I mean, clearly Hammell is far more experienced in the game than me; a chump who is currently lying on a sofa eating chips who has absolutely no idea what we're actually doing on the training pitch but I can't help but feel there's perhaps a correlation between our poor defensive performances and the fact that not only do we have a first time manager in the dug out but also a relatively inexperienced assistant in Brian Kerr.

That's not to throw Kerr under any sort of bus but it just feels from the outside looking in that we're thin when it comes to coaching support as well having to chuck school weans on to the bench.

I've said it before but I'd feel a lot more comfortable about things if we had something approaching an experienced head in the mix for Hammell and Kerr to lean on rather than "lazy leg is lazy".

This is where I am.
I like Hammell, I really hope he succeeds, but the management team just feels ‘too inexperienced’. I’m getting heavy Kettlewell at Ross County vibes about us. The irony of course being that he is also at our club now. 

[Well Well]

More importantly can we discuss the very poor state of the steak pies in catering. They have been going downhill for a while now. There is absolutely no gravy in the pies and it is a struggle to finish one of these things without a large drink as they are so dry. First world problems.