Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

Wee Al still down there doing it...

[Mr. Brightside]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Wee Al still down there doing it...

Vewy pwoud of the boy.

[rowsdower]

Allan Campbell money is the only thing to look forward to this season. Any chance someone buys him in January? I can almost smell the improved signage and upgraded hospitality facilities. 

We got a sell on for Scott? There's a new reception desk just waiting to be bought. 

Also, is there a youth player that's legit in with a chance of getting in the team?

[RostokMcSpoons]

9 hours ago, rowsdower said:

Allan Campbell money is the only thing to look forward to this season. Any chance someone buys him in January? I can almost smell the improved signage and upgraded hospitality facilities.

I watched the Luton game on and off, and I was lucky enough to catch his goal live as it happened.  It was a nicely placed shot from ~23 yards out.

Sadly it was about the only thing I saw him do.  In the few matches I've managed to watch of him recently he seems to drift around barely getting touches of the ball.  Eye-catching 'come hither and sign me' performances they were not ... So I wouldn't hold your breath.

The fans still seem to love him, I'm not sure if he's living off the goodwill from the previous great performances from the last season, or if he's doing stuff I'm just not seeing (whether that's the lack of my scouting nous, or he's playing great in the games I don't get to see)

I hope that's the case!

[Mitch]

Really big month or so coming up, which will give us an idea on the likelihood of us avoiding the drop. Whilst Hammell is hardly going to come out and say that we will be bringing in a coach load of new players in January, the noises about 1 or 2 is concerning. 
Moult and Aarons are both away back to their respective clubs, so I would expect as a minimum that they are replaced. Would be good to offload Morris back down the road, but can’t see him having a long list of interested clubs. I’m not convinced we are going to be able to get the quality that is needed.

The team are weak both physically and mentally. There is no way that this lot come out on top in a relegation battle, they will shit the bed!

Alexander is still to blame for this shambles of a squad, but Hammells inexperience is showing badly. Make or break next 5 months!

[capt_oats]

9 minutes ago, RostokMcSpoons said:

I watched the Luton game on and off, and I was lucky enough to catch his goal live as it happened.  It was a nicely placed shot from ~23 yards out.

Sadly it was about the only thing I saw him do.  In the few matches I've managed to watch of him recently he seems to drift around barely getting touches of the ball.  Eye-catching 'come hither and sign me' performances they were not ... So I wouldn't hold your breath.

The fans still seem to love him, I'm not sure if he's living off the goodwill from the previous great performances from the last season, or if he's doing stuff I'm just not seeing (whether that's the lack of my scouting nous, or he's playing great in the games I don't get to see)

I hope that's the case!

Tbf, even when he was with us that was his game rather than him being eye catching in the same way that say, Turnbull was.

Dig back on this thread and you'll find plenty of shouts saying that players like him are ten a penny down there and he wasn't a Championship level player etc.

As it goes, he's turned out to be one of Luton's best players and key to how they function.

With the way Luton play, they're set up to press and chase. With his skillset he's a perfect fit for them.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I think the worst thing that could have happened to us was those Lamie goals in the spring - the equaliser against Livi and the winner against Hearts.

If that didn’t massively paper over the cracks and see us over the line for Europe, I reckon there’s a chance we could be sitting here with neither Alexander nor Hammell as boss and a slightly more fit for purpose set of players.

I honestly don’t blame Hammell though, this to me is Alexander’s mess. I find it difficult to become animated about the situation due to the fact that I don’t really have any ideas on what we could do better with the squad we have currently. Shields is ineffective but I don’t think Morris would be an improvement. Spittal frustrated me but I’m not sure bringing in Tierney for him would be a marked upgrade. The midfield is definitely missing something but it’s not Maguire or Cornelius.

I would have more animation about the situation if I felt the team could be improved if X player pulled their weight, or if we brought Y player in to the team, but I don’t really think that in our current squad. I think we’re just playing the cards we’ve been dealt.

Whatever budget we have in January is key. I think Hammell gambled on Aarons and Moult, due to their injury past and affiliation with the club, they were probably on paper better players than he could have brought in otherwise with the notice he had. Fortunately, there was foresight to have clauses to cut the loan short. For me we need an experienced centre back (in addition to Blayney), a destroyer in midfield and at least a couple of creative options. For what it’s worth I’d take Shaughnessy in a heartbeat.

[AdamMFC]

2 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I think the worst thing that could have happened to us was those Lamie goals in the spring - the equaliser against Livi and the winner against Hearts.

If that didn’t massively paper over the cracks and see us over the line for Europe, I reckon there’s a chance we could be sitting here with neither Alexander nor Hammell as boss and a slightly more fit for purpose set of players.

I honestly don’t blame Hammell though, this to me is Alexander’s mess. I find it difficult to become animated about the situation due to the fact that I don’t really have any ideas on what we could do better with the squad we have currently. Shields is ineffective but I don’t think Morris would be an improvement. Spittal frustrated me but I’m not sure bringing in Tierney for him would be a marked upgrade. The midfield is definitely missing something but it’s not Maguire or Cornelius.

I would have more animation about the situation if I felt the team could be improved if X player pulled their weight, or if we brought Y player in to the team, but I don’t really think that in our current squad. I think we’re just playing the cards we’ve been dealt.

Whatever budget we have in January is key. I think Hammell gambled on Aarons and Moult, due to their injury past and affiliation with the club, they were probably on paper better players than he could have brought in otherwise with the notice he had. Fortunately, there was foresight to have clauses to cut the loan short. For me we need an experienced centre back (in addition to Blayney), a destroyer in midfield and at least a couple of creative options. For what it’s worth I’d take Shaughnessy in a heartbeat.

I agree with you on the Lamie goals mate. In the moment, absolutely brilliant but probably did more damage in the mid-longer term.

 

I'd also take Shaughessy in a heartbeat. Let's hope this forum can manifest into happening.

[Busta Nut]

5 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I think the worst thing that could have happened to us was those Lamie goals in the spring - the equaliser against Livi and the winner against Hearts.

Yep, think we spoke about it at the time. The Livi one I didn't mind as much as top 6 meant we couldn't slide further down the league to the relegation party. The fact we somehow struggled out way into Europe was a massive distraction to what was actually goin on.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Busta Nut

[YassinMoutaouakil]

If it wasn't for the Euro money we might not have been able to afford Aarons and Moult.

[capt_oats]

17 hours ago, rowsdower said:

Allan Campbell money is the only thing to look forward to this season. Any chance someone buys him in January? I can almost smell the improved signage and upgraded hospitality facilities. 

We got a sell on for Scott? There's a new reception desk just waiting to be bought. 

Also, is there a youth player that's legit in with a chance of getting in the team?

Here are the ages of the youth players who have been around the first team this season:

• Lennon Miller (16) - debut against ICT
• Kian Spiers (18) - debut against St Mirren
• Luca Ross (16)
• Mark Ferrie (17)
• Ewan Wilson (18) - on loan at Albion Rovers
• Max Johnston (19) - on loan at Cove Rangers

6 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I think the worst thing that could have happened to us was those Lamie goals in the spring - the equaliser against Livi and the winner against Hearts.

If that didn’t massively paper over the cracks and see us over the line for Europe, I reckon there’s a chance we could be sitting here with neither Alexander nor Hammell as boss and a slightly more fit for purpose set of players.

I honestly don’t blame Hammell though, this to me is Alexander’s mess. I find it difficult to become animated about the situation due to the fact that I don’t really have any ideas on what we could do better with the squad we have currently. Shields is ineffective but I don’t think Morris would be an improvement. Spittal frustrated me but I’m not sure bringing in Tierney for him would be a marked upgrade. The midfield is definitely missing something but it’s not Maguire or Cornelius.

I would have more animation about the situation if I felt the team could be improved if X player pulled their weight, or if we brought Y player in to the team, but I don’t really think that in our current squad. I think we’re just playing the cards we’ve been dealt.

Whatever budget we have in January is key. I think Hammell gambled on Aarons and Moult, due to their injury past and affiliation with the club, they were probably on paper better players than he could have brought in otherwise with the notice he had. Fortunately, there was foresight to have clauses to cut the loan short. For me we need an experienced centre back (in addition to Blayney), a destroyer in midfield and at least a couple of creative options. For what it’s worth I’d take Shaughnessy in a heartbeat.

Broadly agree with that but I don't think all of the blame lands at Alexander's door.

The point @Casagolda made a few pages back about either backing or sacking Alexander is on the board and we seemingly did neither and left it until the decision was academic and his position was untenable.

For me there's been a strategy in place to trim down the squad. Essentially we've wanted to run with a smaller squad compared to where we were with Robinson in order to allow #YoungMotherwell to fill the gaps and here we are...

We have an first team squad of 20 eligible outfield players and as of Friday night we had 6 out injured (Carroll, Mugabi, Johansen, McGinley, Efford, Moult). As you say, this is our current squad - we're picking from the same pool of 14 outfield players.

As I've said, I don't think we're the *worst* team in the league but we have absolutely zero depth and finding ourselves in the position where we're relying on Conor Shields week in, week out is a problem that is largely of our own making.

The worry I have is not only whether Hammell can address the areas that need fixed but also whether he has the clout to get the deals over the line. 3 of his 4 signings in the summer were former players but I suppose the positive is that the one who hadn't been here before has actually been good.

Edited December 27, 2022 by capt_oats

[Kapowzer]

Remember back in the summer someone mentioned they spoke to a board member off the record and they echoed the criticism here of Alexander, his man management, behaviour and the tombola.

I have no doubt that Flao and the rest had the odd niggles in January but he was offered an extension, serious doubts by the end of February and realised he wasn't the future in March. No Fergie-esque 4 year empire build but optimism he would be attractive due to his on paper achievements. So fingers crossed someone would approach to speak thus saving our patient/family/community reputation which they board foster at every opportunity and of course compensation in rather than out. Maybe the withholding of funds was designed to get him on the phone to his agent and tout but there were no bites and then Sligo happened.

However, I don't think the patient/family/community club thing we foster attracted additional names or a higher calibre of applicant. Whither we punted him after finishing 5th would have made some wary after a "successful" season, that's open to conjecture but we'll never know for certain.

The question which we'll find out in someone's memoir in 20 years is the renewed contract had less impact for us financially to sack than his existing one. Probably a bump in his basic but maybe we banked on his arrogance that he could continue in the same vein as the year before and assume he wouldn't be anywhere near getting pied. If so, that's up there with the business interruption insurance.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Kapowzer

[capt_oats]

[eliphas]

Aye, it was me who mentioned the above at the time. 

When he was given the new contract in the January we were going well (results wise, if not style) and I think it's fair to say a lot of the personality/management traits were both seen as something which wasn't really too much of an issue given the results overall and weren't as, let's say, surfaced at the time either. Also fair to say things took a huge turn Feb onwards and these traits got worse and worse. To the point by the end of the season there really was no talking to him (see also players not renewing contracts). Plenty of things said and presented in his original interview by the end of the following season were not showing (youth development being one). 

For me, the main issue was the contract extension, rather than the 'back or sack' calls for the summer. The board (not just Flow) put themselves into a position that at the end of the season we couldnt afford to sack him really as we had no exit negotiation position but we also had no confidence in backing him by that point. The money saved from paying up a contract with 3 years left vs what we paid post Sligo shouldn't be under valued.

It's easy for all of us to say we should have just backed him but I don't think anyone here would have had confidence in him to bring in the right players, spend a shed load of money and load the squad up (e.g Morris was GA head hunt, Spittal and McGinn were club scouting suggestions and sanctioned as fairly safe bets. McGinn seen as needed since GA and SOD had no working relationship). If that was the case we certainly wouldn't have money to spend in January. 

It's far far from ideal but it all goes back to that contract extension and the fall out from that. 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by eliphas

[capt_oats]

6 hours ago, eliphas said:

Aye, it was me who mentioned the above at the time. 

When he was given the new contract in the January we were going well (results wise, if not style) and I think it's fair to say a lot of the personality/management traits were both seen as something which wasn't really too much of an issue given the results overall and weren't as, let's say, surfaced at the time either. Also fair to say things took a huge turn Feb onwards and these traits got worse and worse. To the point by the end of the season there really was no talking to him (see also players not renewing contracts). Plenty of things said and presented in his original interview by the end of the following season were not showing (youth development being one). 

For me, the main issue was the contract extension, rather than the 'back or sack' calls for the summer. The board (not just Flow) put themselves into a position that at the end of the season we couldnt afford to sack him really as we had no exit negotiation position but we also had no confidence in backing him by that point. The money saved from paying up a contract with 3 years left vs what we paid post Sligo shouldn't be under valued.

It's easy for all of us to say we should have just backed him but I don't think anyone here would have had confidence in him to bring in the right players, spend a shed load of money and load the squad up (e.g Morris was GA head hunt, Spittal and McGinn were club scouting suggestions and sanctioned as fairly safe bets. McGinn seen as needed since GA and SOD had no working relationship). If that was the case we certainly wouldn't have money to spend in January. 

It's far far from ideal but it all goes back to that contract extension and the fall out from that. 

I don't disagree but ultimately if the discussion is about the state of the squad then the fact the board didn't have confidence in Alexander bringing in the right players so chose to not back him but keep him in position is a contributing factor to the current situation as much as it is about GA. IIRC we made an approach for Callum Hendry as well as the players we did manage to get in.

As far as the extension goes if you take a swatch at the thread around that point most (including me) were happy enough with it. His record in 2021 was exceptional and I don't think anyone saw him going rogue in the way he did. You live and learn.

You can absolutely justify the route that the club took given the sharp turn sideways from February onwards but equally (IMO) there's no getting away from that fact that choosing to let it play out as we did has had a direct impact.

Is it fixable? Sure. It needs someone to take control of things and admit where we've fucked up and deal with it though.

Going back further to the summer of 21/22 Flow did a pod with the MFC Podcast and outlined to change in recruitment strategy, which was all fair enough. From that, I got the impression that this season was meant to be about consolidation and there was never any intention of having significant player turnover.

Someone who was actually there can remind me but there not the suggestion at the AGM that we were only anticipating bringing in "5 at the max" during the summer? Was that direction coming from the club or Alexander or both?

Edited December 28, 2022 by capt_oats

[dezz]

Wouldn’t normally post stuff from this account but saw this on twitter. Not exactly surprising, but ooft  

 

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, dezz said:

Wouldn’t normally post stuff from this account but saw this on twitter. Not exactly surprising, but ooft  

This was us December 31st last year. 

[Pettigrew]

23 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

This was us December 31st last year. 

With same predictable outcome as per the last time we were best of the rest I am sure.  

[Allroy for Prez]

We’ve won 7 from 35 games played this season!?!?!

[capt_oats]

13 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

We’ve won 7 from 35 games played this season!?!?!

No.

We've only played 17 league games this season.