Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[thisGRAEME]

Good Motherwell teams are broadly better than the sum of their parts.

This Motherwell side is quite a bit worse than the sum of its parts.

It's quite weird that our form is generally poor, with a wee run of terrible results when Kettlewell attempted mad stuff like Wilkinson in midfield. You wonder if he'd just fucked about less we might've won a couple and would feel significantly more comfortable in that we're just a bit duff rather than on the verge of crisis.

[Allroy for Prez]

5 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Good Motherwell teams are broadly better than the sum of their parts.

This Motherwell side is quite a bit worse than the sum of its parts.

It's quite weird that our form is generally poor, with a wee run of terrible results when Kettlewell attempted mad stuff like Wilkinson in midfield. You wonder if he'd just fucked about less we might've won a couple and would feel significantly more comfortable in that we're just a bit duff rather than on the verge of crisis.

With the run we’re on and the back room upheaval I’d say this was pretty much crisis territory.

Lose the next 2 and it’s full blown heads gone stuff. 

[Neil86]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

What's this?

[ropy]

Presumably McGinn comes back into the side today, but who for? Does his face mask double as a snorkel?

Edited December 27, 2023 by ropy

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

22 hours ago, ropy said:

Mere speculation but I wonder if Wilkinson reckons that things haven’t worked out the way he wanted to and has a move back down south lined up.  Kettlewell has proved adept at moving players on.  Is that why he hasn’t even featured off the bench the past 2 games?

This would create space in the squad for another striker, why not a promising U23 from, say, Spurs.

Mere speculation.

I'm not really sure where or if Wilkinson fits into any starting xi

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

Good Motherwell teams are broadly better than the sum of their parts.

This Motherwell side is quite a bit worse than the sum of its parts.

It's quite weird that our form is generally poor, with a wee run of terrible results when Kettlewell attempted mad stuff like Wilkinson in midfield. You wonder if he'd just fucked about less we might've won a couple and would feel significantly more comfortable in that we're just a bit duff rather than on the verge of crisis.

Merely being on the verge of crisis would be a significant improvement on our actual current position!

[YassinMoutaouakil]

How do folk feel about KVV coming back, now that Scott Burns seems to be hinting at some sort of vague interest? I'm honestly in two minds about it. I don't think our non-Mika forwards are brilliant by any means but they're definitely not the worst in the league and as a collective they probably aren't the main reason behind our league position. There's the accepted wisdom that somebody like Mika needs a foil to occupy defences but nobody has really done enough to make that role their own and there's a probably a better argument that opposition would struggle more trying to contain two genuinely good strikers than one decent forward and one guy who's just there to look strong and hold the ball up.

 

Unless we can find somebody to take one of Wilkinson, Obika or Bair off our hands at weirdly favourable terms- or end Shaw's deal early- it'd probably mean us taking money away from areas of the park that really need reinforced. I'm also not sure if it's worth essentially writing off one of the better bits of business we'll do- getting half a million from a second tier Dutch team for a 32 year old- just to stop St Mirren or St Johnstone signing him.

 

In summary, bring him home, maybe.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by YassinMoutaouakil

[Stevie Kirk]

6 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

How do folk feel about KVV coming back, now that Scott Burns seems to be hinting at some sort of vague interest? I'm honestly in two minds about it. I don't think our non-Mika forwards are brilliant by any means but they're definitely not the worst in the league and as a collective they probably aren't the main reason behind our league position. There's the accepted wisdom that somebody like Mika needs a foil to occupy defences but nobody has really done enough to make that role their own and there's a probably a better argument that opposition would struggle more trying to contain two genuinely good strikers than one decent forward and one guy who's just there to look strong and hold the ball up.

 

Unless we can find somebody to take one of Wilkinson, Obika or Bair off our hands at weirdly favourable terms- or end Shaw's deal early- it'd probably mean us taking money away from areas of the park that really need reinforced. I'm also not sure if it's worth essentially writing off one of the better bits of business we'll do- getting half a million from a second tier Dutch team for a 32 year old- just to stop St Mirren or St Johnstone signing him.

 

In summary, bring him home, maybe.

 

 

If he’s available it’s an absolute no - brainer. I for one would welcome our new mad Dutch overlord.

[MurrayWell]

Would love to see big Kev back, for the short-term he's exactly what we need, but really cannot see it. 

Read the Scott Burns piece earlier and looks like anyone who will be taking him will either need to pay a healthy fee or the vast majority of his wages to take him on loan, can't see us being in a situation to do either. Would also imagine the non-Glasgow "big" city clubs will be looking at him if they lose their top strikers. 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by MurrayWell

[ropy]

6 months wages v cost of relegation? 

[Handsome_Devil]

Signing KVV would be a no brainier but only if we still have enough funds to bolster some other areas too. It's the defence, or lack of it, that's killing us.

As for costs, obviously we're not likely at the top of the queue but we can take what Groningen say with a massive pinch of salt. KVV simply isn't worth what he was when they committed to him, they're not going to break even - they can either continue throwing good money after bad or salvage what they can. 

[Ceiling Granny]

Heard from more than one person (none of whom are remotely in the know) that Van Veen is going to Rangers on loan. 

[Ill Ray]

There’s a Van Veen shaped bat signal in the sky. 
 

Save us Kevin. 

[Gianfranco]

I don’t think we can afford KVV’s wages. If we could then yes please.

 

Who do we think we will be trying to move out in January?

 

Pape will be gone surely.

Will Gent stay? Blackburn might not be that happy with his limited game time as may he.

Shaw? I’m not sure when his loan is up or if it has a break clause.

Obika? Hasn’t had much game time since returning.

Wilkinson? Again limited starts. 
 

Anyone else?

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Neil86 said:

What's this?

Ropy speculated that we were gonna sign an U23 from Spurs on loan.

This is the story the Record will be running with tomorrow after reading it on here.

No basis whatsoever. Allegedly......

[joewarkfanclub]

A big part of the problem with our form is that we have had a string of injuries and suspensions during the course of the season which have stopped us fielding a settled side.

SK might get cut more slack for that if some if his decisions on how to deal with that hadnt been so mental (Wilko in midfield) and he hadnt ignored such obvious facts (we would be better with Spencer & Gent in their natural positions).

Too often he has tried to be too clever about it instead of just doing the safe/simple thing. Which ironically, was what got him so much success last season.

Re KVV, you can never have too many good players in the building and SK seems to be one of the few managers who could get him playing at his best consistently. I dont see the finances working in our favour and Im not sure he and Mika would compliment each other, but if it can be made to work and it doesnt stop us addressing midfield and defence then we would be mad not to look at it. Especially if we could offload Shaw and/or Wilkinson.

I dont see anyone coming in for Obika or Bair.

 

[capt_oats]

26 minutes ago, Gianfranco said:

I don’t think we can afford KVV’s wages. If we could then yes please.

Who do we think we will be trying to move out in January?

Pape will be gone surely.

Will Gent stay? Blackburn might not be that happy with his limited game time as may he.

Shaw? I’m not sure when his loan is up or if it has a break clause.

Obika? Hasn’t had much game time since returning.

Wilkinson? Again limited starts. 
 

Anyone else?

I wouldn't be be surprised if we offered Souaré a Tanner-style deal to cover him until he's fit again - which is fine although I'm sure certain elements of our support would get wildly bent out of shape about it. Whether he'd choose take that or not I'm not sure but it'd be in keeping with our general position of not cutting anyone loose who isn't fit and sustained their injury on our watch.

Shaw's loan is for the season (per the announcement on the official) regardless of whether there's a break clause or not I'd be surprised if Kettlewell would send him back. Ketts feels like the sort of person who's not going to admit he's fucked it so will just double down on him - he signed him for County and has backed him when he brought him here (albeit it was after both Biereth and Wilko picked up their injuries).

As you mentioned the other day Shaw is our most used substitute and has been getting chucked on ahead of a player (Wilkinson) who has actually scored some fucking goals.

I'm maybe being unfair but I get the impression that the likes of Paton and Shaw are very much Kettlewell's guys.

Anyway, I brought this up when Matty Connelly went out on loan but our First Team squad (as it stands) is currently 21 bodies (with 3 long term injuries - Souaré, Casey, Miller) which means we're picking from a pool of 18 players and we've essentially been chucking 3 or 4 actual school children on the bench every week, on the regular.

I suppose it's a legitimate question as to whether we actually need to be moving folk out.

[CoF]

On 26/12/2023 at 12:37, ropy said:

Obviously the Livingston game is key both to end the run we are on and because of the timing of it before a break.  We are capable of winning it.  But I am very aware that on any day any team can lose a winnable game, it happens.  It would be devastations if it happened to us.  We are already off course for my point a game season.

Many on here, myself included, have been skipping past the last few games (and Aberdeen tonight) and looking at Livi as the kinda do or die moment for Kettlewell, but the more I think about it the more I’ve concluded that a win will tell us absolutely nothing. 
 

I get that it might feel like a galvanizing moment we can “kick on” from, but we’ve had plenty of moments in the last 17 games, mainly the last minute stuff, that you think would bring some confidence and feel-good vibes back to the team, only to be clueless again the following week. I know it’s not the same as a win, but Livi are really, really, really shite and a win will just leave us in a further state of limbo.
 

If we lose tonight without getting pumped, and win on Saturday do we give Kettlewell the chance to make some winter signings and a couple of more games? Hibs, County, Killie and St Johnstone up next -  how much of a budget and how many games does Kettlewell get? We’re going into a vital few weeks, the clock is well and truly ticking and assessment on a game by game basis isn’t good for anyone. 
 

I suppose the complicated part of being a club that isn’t trigger happy is that it can become increasingly unclear when to actually pull the trigger. What a headache. 

[CoF]

And just as I finished typing that, I think I’ve convinced myself that the only sensible option is a loss tonight and he goes. Don’t wait till Livi, we’ll learn nothing from it. 

[Dosser1886]

I'm at the apathy stage tbh.