MP_MFC Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Tbf this... ... kind of sounds like it was forced upon you as part of a loan agreement made in the Summer more than through choice, to me. My understanding is it's quite the opposite, we terminated the loan and offered to take him back on much reduced terms given his impact in the first half of the season, was then up to Barnsley if they wanted to pay him the full whack or take *something* for him as he couldn't go elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, MP_MFC said: My understanding is it's quite the opposite, we terminated the loan and offered to take him back on much reduced terms given his impact in the first half of the season, was then up to Barnsley if they wanted to pay him the full whack or take *something* for him as he couldn't go elsewhere. That was certainly the whisper early in the window though the phrase regarding an appeal on the Barnsley site is curious. Do they mean we wanted him and there was an appeal to circumvent the deadline somehow or did they appeal that his injury we may or may have used to cancel the loan wasn't serious enough to justify it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 If Shaw is ineligible to go elsewhere and Barnsley have basically sent him back up almost free gratis, I can see Kettlewell's thinking in having an extra body to make up the numbers in training and bounce games. Would not expect to see him take the field again though unless Bair and Vale's legs fall off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) The "appeal" thing is all to do with Barnsley submitting a form to the FA before the deadline to allow a bit more time to get the deal finished. We are certainly spinning it that he was only back down for treatment, don't think that was the case. The loan was originally cancelled and we are paying less this time from what I heard. Edit: just checked and the original statement said the loan was terminated. This new story doesn't specify that it's a new loan deal but I think that's the case. Edited February 8 by MurrayWell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I'm sort of fine with it. The last two games have brightened the mood around the place but I still think failing to bring in a striker on deadline day was a bit of a minor disaster. This at least gives us something other than Vale and the Bair. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, MurrayWell said: The "appeal" thing is all to do with Barnsley submitting a form to the FA before the deadline to allow a bit more time to get the deal finished. That's a relief. I think. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Decanter is still at Barnsley, top scorer in League One. Fair play to him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Says a lot for the quality available in the out of contract market. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Mad how people were more upset about a player who doesn't play for Motherwell getting booed than people actively rooting against an actual Motherwell player, but there we are. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellin Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 12 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said: Mad how people were more upset about a player who doesn't play for Motherwell getting booed than people actively rooting against an actual Motherwell player, but there we are. I agree. Some players have been given a very hard time particular on Facebook and Twitter. Kettlewell too. Of course folk are entitled to their opinions, just think it's been very toxic lately. Edited February 8 by Wellin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, Wellin said: Of course folk are entitled to their opinions Now that's where you're wrong. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowsdower Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Oli Shaw has become a meme. He's nowhere near as bad as some like to make out, and he's at about the level a backup striker at motherwell is going to be. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazylegsjoe_mfc Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 When I heard murmurs of this at the game on Tuesday, I thought it was nonsense. I've never heard of this happening before. I will qualify this with saying that I don't think Shaw was good for us prior to the break, but I certainly don't think this is the disaster some make it out to be, especially on a lesser wage. I don't think the fans' opinion of him would be as low, if we didn't have such a chaotic use of strikers in general in the first half of the season. There were points where he was one of four strikers being brought on as a sub in a game. When we were playing someone up beside Mika, all four of the other guys got a shot at it and there was never any chance for momentum or consistency. Many were shouting on us to sign just any striker when the window closed. We've done that and people are still unhappy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 12 minutes ago, rowsdower said: Oli Shaw has become a meme. He's nowhere near as bad as some like to make out, and he's at about the level a backup striker at motherwell is going to be. I massively disagree based on the first half of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MurrayWell Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Shaw is pretty pish at fitba, but we've had plenty of folk over the years who are pretty pish at fitba. We are light up top, he's not going to be a first pick I wouldn't expect. Would I have re-signed him? Probably not. But I'd expect the agreement was that we were trying to get someone else (Eg KvV) but if we failed to do so we'd take him back on reduced terms. So we are where we are. Also, I can't imagine many players, unattached or otherwise, are going to be jumping through hoops to become our third or fourth choice striker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatermass Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 hours ago, capt_oats said: It'd need to be a win against Aberdeen as the rearranged Dundee v St Johnstone game is over the weekend so it depends on that result. The draw puts us on 26 points. Dundee win they go to 29 points, draw 27. St Johnstone win they go on to 27. The difference in narrative of the respective seasons is quite funny though. The general consensus seems to be that Dundee are having a "good" season while we're erm...very much not. As it stands there's a point difference between the two teams with us having (marginally) scored more goals and conceded fewer. Cheers. Had no idea that match was taking place at the weekend. Thought there had been a full wipeout due to the Scottish Cup. We’ll just need to win then! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 3 hours ago, MurrayWell said: The "appeal" thing is all to do with Barnsley submitting a form to the FA before the deadline to allow a bit more time to get the deal finished. We are certainly spinning it that he was only back down for treatment, don't think that was the case. The loan was originally cancelled and we are paying less this time from what I heard. Edit: just checked and the original statement said the loan was terminated. This new story doesn't specify that it's a new loan deal but I think that's the case. Aye. I mean, fair play to the club for trying to spin this and given the circumstances...fine but don't kid a kidder. 3 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: I'm sort of fine with it. The last two games have brightened the mood around the place but I still think failing to bring in a striker on deadline day was a bit of a minor disaster. This at least gives us something other than Vale and the Bair. Yeah, I had posted after the window shut saying that regardless of what happened going forward it was still a failure and I kind of stand by that. We cleared the decks but presumably missed *all* our targets - given we've brought back an apparently still injured player whose loan we terminated less than a month ago. Like I don't think folk need to be looking for their pound of flesh or anything (the Nick Daws thread on Steelmen is a riot - shoutout the boy who can't "farthom" (sic) why people think results last season were worse. Spoiler: it's because results last season were worse.) but there probably needs to be some sort of accountability as far as process goes; were we unrealistic in our targets, did we leave things too late, was it financial etc? Edited February 8 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I don't want Oli Shaw above Jack Vale in the pecking order. Based on 10 minutes v 4 months 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 35 minutes ago, capt_oats said: but there probably needs to be some sort of accountability as far as process goes; were we unrealistic in our targets, did we leave things too late, was it financial etc? I mean, it's possible we now just don't pay enough to be remotely competitive. Or were unlucky. But I would assume (dangerous I know) we felt summer showed the risk of signing players for the sake of it and decided to save the money. Think of it as KVV at Killie in reverse. We've seen Bair improve, we know Livingston are 12th, we knew we had Shaw potentially back as third/fourth pick. If we didn't feel happy with the value we were getting, why push the boat out in being ambitious for eighth? I doubt it's quite as clinically thought out but it would tie in to idle thoughts I had about so many others supposedly having more money than us. I don't think it means instant doom but it does mean we pick and choose the seasons we're ambitious and the seasons we just have to endure. Going 5th-10th-4th-9th is much better than going 6-7-6-7...if we have a season we're weaker and others stronger, spend the least possible in aiming for 10th so that when we're better again and others fade, we have the money to spend trying to convert a safe midtable finish into a European spot. It's not risk free and requires planning, adaptability and nerve...but until Taylor Swift does pick up the phone, I don't see much alternative. Tldr: we shouldn't aim for 5th-8th every season anymore, we should flexibly aim (roughly) for two to three seasons 9th-10th and one top five out of every three to four year window. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RostokMcSpoons Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, MurrayWell said: Also, I can't imagine many players, unattached or otherwise, are going to be jumping through hoops to become our third or fourth choice striker. I'd jump through hoops to be our sixth choice striker. Sadly won't happen. Can't jump at all let alone through a frickin' hoop at the moment (Knee) And I don't think I'd fit through the hoop (Fat) Edited February 8 by RostokMcSpoons 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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