rowsdower Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 No update in the search for a CEO then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, rowsdower said: No update in the search for a CEO then? I could be wrong but beyond Weir effectively saying he’s out of there in 5 weeks they didn’t actually mention it until someone asked. They’ve apparently interviewed and the WS have had input or spoken to folk but the whole “investment” thing has meant they find themselves between two stools in that anyone putting money in might have their own ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Kettlewell's extension not being announced/communicated when it was triggered is mental. The lack of progress in the CEO search is very concerning, yet unsurprising. Outside investment feels like a very long shot. Despite all these factors bearing the possibility of impacting the future of the club, from all of today's news I'm still most interested in whatever the 'sinister' shit involves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randolphtops Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 30 minutes ago, capt_oats said: I could be wrong but beyond Weir effectively saying he’s out of there in 5 weeks they didn’t actually mention it until someone asked. They’ve apparently interviewed and the WS have had input or spoken to folk but the whole “investment” thing has meant they find themselves between two stools in that anyone putting money in might have their own ideas. Which leaves us in a strange position. As chairman stated the club needs someone who knows what they are doing during investment negotiations and a final deal. But with chairman and Derek Weir leaving who would that be? Perhaps an incoming CEO, but the potential investor talked about has said he has a CEO in waiting, so our new CEO is expected to take a job in the knowledge that his first main task will possibly be to negotiate investment with an interested party who wants to bring his own CEO in. Will the current CEO candidates remain interested once this is known?, if so will they have the quite detailed financial & corporate knowledge needed for this task, or more likely I think that the club will have to outsource for this task. That is all assuming the Well Society give the green light to diluting their shareholding to open negotiations. Some passionate arguments articulated both ways and I think this has the potential for quite heated debate 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatermass Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 “Cannae believe Kettlewell is still in a joab and he’s only won 5 league games in the last 50. If Queen’s Park put us out the Cup on Saturday he has to go” etc., etc., 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 hours ago, welldaft said: Let’s hope that one if not both interested parties have deep pockets . That's way down my list of concerns tbh. I'm not 100% against it until I hear the details but I'm going to need a huge amount of convincing that handing over our future to some random American(s) with no connection to the club or town is a good idea simply because we might get relegated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettigrew Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 5 hours ago, Randolphtops said: Which leaves us in a strange position. As chairman stated the club needs someone who knows what they are doing during investment negotiations and a final deal. But with chairman and Derek Weir leaving who would that be? Perhaps an incoming CEO, but the potential investor talked about has said he has a CEO in waiting, so our new CEO is expected to take a job in the knowledge that his first main task will possibly be to negotiate investment with an interested party who wants to bring his own CEO in. Will the current CEO candidates remain interested once this is known?, if so will they have the quite detailed financial & corporate knowledge needed for this task, or more likely I think that the club will have to outsource for this task. I’d be shocked if there’s much crossover between the CVs of people who we’ve looked at for CEO and the CVs of the sort of folk who have the Corporate Finance experience to competently steer us through these discussions. Likewise, you have to wonder what skillset lies on the Well Society side to do similar. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 27 minutes ago, Pettigrew said: I’d be shocked if there’s much crossover between the CVs of people who we’ve looked at for CEO and the CVs of the sort of folk who have the Corporate Finance experience to competently steer us through these discussions. Likewise, you have to wonder what skillset lies on the Well Society side to do similar. Aye, to me that's the sort of thing that's so particular we'll be instructing externally, at least we should if we get as far as the nitty gritty. The CEO thing is obviously a bit chicken and egg. Personally I'd much rather we set our own path and anyone who wants a minority investment along the way is welcome to join... obviously those at the top prefer keeping options open but it means we're becoming a bit farcical in the meantime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML4 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 The malaise caused by not having a functioning CEO for almost a full year now has put us in the position where a takeover looks appealing. Is that by design? This is not about fan ownership or benefactor ownership. It is about direction and ambition. The lack of it has put us right here where someone putting some cash in seems the only way. It absolutely is not. The language on here from some tells you that attitude has already seeped through. That it is the only way to stay up or survive. Someone with deep pockets is not the saviour. It is merely the security. And what if they run the club badly? It is high time there was a vote of no confidence in the current board and a 6-12 month plan put in place to do more with what it is within the club current control to get more money in and show there is another way. Instead of being led down the path to a takeover being the only one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettigrew Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 minutes ago, ML4 said: The malaise caused by not having a functioning CEO for almost a full year now has put us in the position where a takeover looks appealing. Is that by design? This is not about fan ownership or benefactor ownership. It is about direction and ambition. The lack of it has put us right here where someone putting some cash in seems the only way. It absolutely is not. The language on here from some tells you that attitude has already seeped through. That it is the only way to stay up or survive. Someone with deep pockets is not the saviour. It is merely the security. And what if they run the club badly? It is high time there was a vote of no confidence in the current board and a 6-12 month plan put in place to do more with what it is within the club current control to get more money in and show there is another way. Instead of being led down the path to a takeover being the only one. Who do we have confidence in? The Society? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Weir and McMahon were the only people who knew about Kettlewell's extension. They are lying to us. They are also trying to sell us to a bunch of fucking con men. Get them to f**k. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pettigrew Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: Weir and McMahon were the only people who knew about Kettlewell's extension. They are lying to us. They are also trying to sell us to a bunch of fucking con men. Get them to f**k. They are literally getting themselves to f*** in what 4 weeks? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 If there is investment from someone with no previous connection to the club, the strings that come attached will be the main thing that I would base my decision on. The idea that we would move away from majority fan ownership and then be left in a state in 5 years where the investor walks away and we are left holding excessive debt that was run up during their time would be absolute non-starter for me. I would genuinely rather us relegated while living within our means and fan owned than spend money we don't have and end up a basket case as were a number of years back. I simply don't buy that Motherwell is an investment in the real sense of the word - short of them keeping all our transfer/development fees and us getting lucky with another generation from the academy, the idea of getting a return that would make it worthwhile is fanciful. So if it's going to be a rich guy playing FM24 or even someone who is genuinely just chucking a few quid in for philanthropic reasons - they do it with their money and leave the core of the club in the state they found it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 22 minutes ago, Pettigrew said: Who do we have confidence in? The Society? Whether you have confidence in them or not (a perfectly reasonable concern), I would agree completely with @ML4 that as the owner it is on the Society to take action. It shouldn't be that hard - both McMahon and Weir have indicated they feel they've done their shift. Even if you don't like the recent turn, most would agree they deserve to go 'raus mit applaus' as they'd say here, rather than unhappily after decades of service. It just needs to be agreed they go sooner rather than later and the next steps are decided by the younger generations taking over rather than the older on the way out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: Weir and McMahon were the only people who knew about Kettlewell's extension. They are lying to us. They are also trying to sell us to a bunch of fucking con men. Get them to f**k. I find it hard to believe they'd knowingly sell us up the river. They're both fans as well despite their positions. However, I think over the last spell there have been enough instances where their judgement, shall we say, has retrospectively been deemed to have fallen short of the standard expected not just in outcome but in process, that they both should go now - for the good of everyone. The Kettlewell thing should be the absolute final straw. Edited February 22 by Handsome_Devil 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 4 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said: I find it hard to believe they'd knowingly sell us up the river. They're both fans as well despite their positions. Maybe they dont think they are? It seems notoriously hard to know whos a genuine buyer and whos a fraudster when it comes to football clubs. Its the slight glimmer of hope ive got for us. The process to find a potential buyer has taken over a year, involved a company who specialise in it to both weed out the shite and do due diligence on the preferred option, and also now has a couple of months further research on them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said: Maybe they dont think they are? Yeah, I'm as certain as can be they don't think they're doing that. My concern is that I think they've lost all perspective on how we should proceed. Edit - the probably deserves to be softened as more details emerge from last night. Perhaps took their eye off the ball and lost some perspective is fairer! Edited February 22 by Handsome_Devil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 28 minutes ago, Swello said: If there is investment from someone with no previous connection to the club, the strings that come attached will be the main thing that I would base my decision on. The idea that we would move away from majority fan ownership and then be left in a state in 5 years where the investor walks away and we are left holding excessive debt that was run up during their time would be absolute non-starter for me. I would genuinely rather us relegated while living within our means and fan owned than spend money we don't have and end up a basket case as were a number of years back. I simply don't buy that Motherwell is an investment in the real sense of the word - short of them keeping all our transfer/development fees and us getting lucky with another generation from the academy, the idea of getting a return that would make it worthwhile is fanciful. So if it's going to be a rich guy playing FM24 or even someone who is genuinely just chucking a few quid in for philanthropic reasons - they do it with their money and leave the core of the club in the state they found it. Absolutely. I'd rather have a club to support in the Championship than no club at all. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayMFC Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 10 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: Full disclosure that I wasn't at the AGM and I've not thought massively through all the permutations but I can't really see us staying fan-owned and not being relegated in the next 5 years. I suppose the question is whether folk just want to accept that we don't have a god given right to be in the top flight the same as Partick, Dunfermline, Falkirk etc don't or not. Obviously the Taylor Swift option is the ideal scenario but I think anybody wanting to become a majority shareholder without chucking away the "ethos" should probably be at least heard out. This for me is the entire "debate". I totally understand folk who think that fan-ownership isn't working. I would disagree with that but I understand it's a totally acceptable opinion to have - particularly as we all have different ideas of what "working" actually means. I think part of that is actually to do with communications, transparency etc that hasn't been good enough from both the Society and the club in previous years in terms of actually showing people that it's "working", but I also think a big part of that is very simple: there's essentially a big spectrum where, at one end, there's "aiming for short-term success no matter the risks" and, at the other end, there's "safeguarding the existence of the club forever, no matter what level that's at." Every Motherwell fan will fall on that spectrum somewhere, and I don't think there's any wrong answers - people just have different reasons for supporting the club, get different things from going to games, and have different priorities when it comes to their expectations. Personally, I fall quite far along towards that idea that, as long as I have a club to support for the rest of my life, I will be content - even if that means flirting with or even experiencing relegation. I have probably been shunted even further towards that end of the spectrum as a result of discussions I've had around investment. That absolutely does not have to be the same for everyone, and I imagine a lot of people are somewhere in the middle a lot of the time. Fan-ownership ensures that existence though. While the Well Society has the majority shareholding in the club, the club exists. It may be that, as American investors in particular saturate the European football market, we find ourselves tumbling out of the top flight at some point in the future, as other clubs risk their own long-term futures by chasing that short-term success. There would be difficult decisions to make in that scenario, and a lot of disappointment and heartache, but the future of the club wouldn't be in doubt. At the other of the spectrum, investment for short-term gain doesn't even necessarily guarantee that short-term gain. Dundee Utd are the absolute perfect example of that so, even if you do choose that route, relegation is far from off the cards. And even if you do receive the few years of keeping up with others in the division, the long-term future of the club ceases to be protected and any decisions about what happens to the club, what it's future looks like, and even who then subsequently takes up the reins further down the line are taken out of the hands of Motherwell supporters. Again, I don't think there's necessarily a "right answer". Folk want different things from supporting the club. There's my answer and it may be different from other people's, and that's fine. But what's most important is that, with fan-ownership currently in place, if we get to a point where a majority of Well Society members are at that "short-term success" end of the spectrum, then that's what will occur - which, in itself, is almost a good example of a benefit of fan-ownership working and giving the supporters control of the club's direction. 10 hours ago, capt_oats said: I was there. Some laugh. There were people taking notes so I imagine there will be a full report of what went down on other sites. McMahon seemed genuinely baffled as to why people thought Kettlewell's contract was up in the summer but he just wanted to clarify because he'd heard that there had been discussion on "social media". Weir confirmed later on that it was an automatic trigger and (I think) he said he didn't realise it hadn't been communicated until the other day. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Kettlewell's extension was news to me too. 8 hours ago, capt_oats said: I could be wrong but beyond Weir effectively saying he’s out of there in 5 weeks they didn’t actually mention it until someone asked. They’ve apparently interviewed and the WS have had input or spoken to folk but the whole “investment” thing has meant they find themselves between two stools in that anyone putting money in might have their own ideas. This is accurate. The Society Board have essentially conducted the recruitment process regarding CEO but are now in a state of limbo due to the terms of some of the investment options on the table. 3 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said: That's way down my list of concerns tbh. I'm not 100% against it until I hear the details but I'm going to need a huge amount of convincing that handing over our future to some random American(s) with no connection to the club or town is a good idea simply because we might get relegated. This is where I imagine most fans are. I think it's worth highlighting that none of this is "we'll give you X for Y", there's usually a whole host of caveats and other considerations that mean it's not anywhere near as simple a question as "would you swap fan-ownership for investment". The level of investment itself, who is providing that investment, their intentions for the club, and a whole host of other aspects are incredibly important there too. It's also worth remembering that fan-ownership isn't just some trinket that's been put in a cupboard in the Phil O'Donnell Stand somewhere, it's the result of years and years of time, effort, and money from an endless list of individuals, so I dare say there's a need to actually consider what scrapping all that work is worth to people. Put it this way - I don't think in today's world it's ever going to be as simple as folk just wanting to swap fan-ownership to compete with clubs around us who have some sort of investment. What else would they sacrifice for that and where are the red lines? Would folk take a few extra quid to ensure that we're potentially finishing 6th or 7th each year, in exchange for a club that loses its entire community-based ethos? Would folk take five years of European adventures, in exchange for investment that is only part of a five year plan, with investors set to pack up & leave soon after leaving the club in the lurch? Would folk take dodgy money from unknown sources to make us the 3rd force in Scottish football until the investors got bored, in exchange for the eradication of our own youth academy? Would folk take all of those sacrifices - the loss of the club's identify, no long-term plan, no youth academy - for a club that could still end up in the Championship regardless of investment like Dundee Utd? All hypothetical scenarios but all very real possibilities. As I've mentioned before, protecting the club from falling into the "wrong hands" has long been a reason given for fan-ownership, and I think this is a discussion where people need to take fully on board that investors aren't just coming along to chuck money into Motherwell for the good of Motherwell. That's not to say that there can't be a workable, mutually beneficial agreement found - but it's not quite as easy as some, particularly on Twitter, seem to think. 49 minutes ago, Pettigrew said: Who do we have confidence in? The Society? My honest answer to this would be: Pre-pandemic Society - probably. Post-pandemic until October 2023 Society - no. Post-October 2023 Society - yes, and I would hope that some of that confidence will at least start to build over the coming months. 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I reckon we grab the first investment opportunity from North America with both hands and go for it. What could possibly go wrong? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.