Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[santheman]

4 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

Not to mention the bit everyone always forgets with software development. It's not a one-and-done thing. There's ongoing hosting, support and maintenance costs, plus development of new features over time etc. 

Same goes for implementing a CRM system. It means nothing if you don't put a solid data foundation in place and continue to support it.

And no doubt outscourced to  companies he has a vested interest in.

Win win for him.

[Swello]

1 minute ago, santheman said:

And no doubt outscourced to  companies he has a vested interest in.

Win win for him.

Going back to the Grant Russell tweet earlier - I thought we already had a CRM tool in place. Maybe we stopped paying the subscription at some point since he left.

[StAndrew7]

23 minutes ago, fatcalf said:

This brings me back to one my earliest arguments. If I'm wrong about this, our club will just continue on our merry way doing what we do but still have a team to support. If the others are wrong....??????

If the others are wrong it'll be our fault "foR nOT TeLliNG uS".

9 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

With the best will in the world, that level of consistency is impossible. It's a sport, no one wins all the time and for us to challenge every season it would mean not only out performing the city clubs who spend a wad more but effectively winning a league of our peers every season and nobody does that.

For perspective, in the modern era we've finished in the top three more than Hibs and I struggle to remember another non-city club doing it much more than once. Killie - certainly our level and probably a fraction bigger - have done it once in decades, St Mirren just lost their shit (rightly) for finishing fifth etc.

Taking on any investment in a bid to move up is an absolute fool's game because the risk-reward ratio is stacked against us to a comical degree.

We'll be successful by being stable, sustainable, surviving in the league and with a solid base to take advantage of the chances when they do come. Which is exactly what we've done (in the league at least, and I don't believe we actually enter any other competitions).

I wonder what happened the last time we tried that? Oh. Wait. We nearly died.

Once again, for those of you at the back who can't quite hear (not you @Handsome_Devil, obvs):

None  of  Barmack's  investment  is  going  towards  the  playing  budget.

[Gianfranco]

 

I’ll be much happier when this “deal” collapses. 
 

 

[Phillips455]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

Going back to the Grant Russell tweet earlier - I thought we already had a CRM tool in place. Maybe we stopped paying the subscription at some point since he left.

Or we forgot the password and locked ourselves out.

[Desp]

25 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

With the best will in the world, that level of consistency is impossible. It's a sport, no one wins all the time and for us to challenge every season it would mean not only out performing the city clubs who spend a wad more but effectively winning a league of our peers every season and nobody does that.

For perspective, in the modern era we've finished in the top three more than Hibs and I struggle to remember another non-city club doing it much more than once. Killie - certainly our level and probably a fraction bigger - have done it once in decades, St Mirren just lost their shit (rightly) for finishing fifth etc.

Taking on any investment in a bid to move up is an absolute fool's game because the risk-reward ratio is stacked against us to a comical degree.

We'll be successful by being stable, sustainable, surviving in the league and with a solid base to take advantage of the chances when they do come. Which is exactly what we've done (in the league at least, and I don't believe we actually enter any other competitions).

The fact that the above still needs to be said to folk is unreal. 

The level of investment needed for Motherwell to consistently finish above the rest of the 'diddy' clubs would be off the scale. 

The idea that an amount of circa £300k a season is going to get even remotely close to that is now way past being funny, it's downright fucking stupid. 

Edited Friday at 11:17 by Desp

[For Your Pies Only]

The costings in the plan for many of the initiatives just seem way off, as @thisGRAEME has already highlighted. Some genuinely head scratching projections for income anaw.

But the major takeaway for me is how reactive the Barmack's whole plan is to the Well Society document - really makes it seem that either it's been hurridly reworked from an existing plan that only the exec board have been privy to, or it's been written over the last few days directly in response to the WS plan. Once again - we're talking about an investment approach that has been going on for 6 months now, and has already been rejigged from a laughable offer which was made before the Well Society plan was even published. Suddenly, with a vote looming it's all about working directly in partnership with the WS, dovetailing with their development plan - how convenient! Around 75% of what EB is proposing is already part of the WS plan, without the need for members to increase their contributions in exchange for less of a shareholding and less control of the club's strategic direction. This is not 'preserving fan-ownership as the backbone of MFC's operations' as EB's business plan asserts - quite the opposite.

Ultimately, both plans talk about values and community but the difference is that the WS plan walks the walk - the actions, initiatives and investment approach it proposes is rooted in the local community, reflects the club's and societies' values and gives something back to fans and people and businesses in Lanarkshire, all while improving the club's infrastructure / governance and growing it's finances. The Wild Sheep approach talks a good game but when it comes to proposed actions it's all speculative digital opportunities, making the club more attractive to foreign investment, connecting with influencers... where is the commitment to the community and maintaining the long-term stability of the club's core audience in all of these 'creative iniatives'?

As someone who has worked a lot in the third-sector, that's a huge red flag for me. You can't claim to be values-led and then pay complete lip service to that concept in your strategy and outcomes.

Snake oil stuff.

[Doctor Manhattan]

Over the years I’ve received and reviewed a lot of initial proposal papers for one thing or another. Often, on first reading, they can look like a totally unworkable bag of spanners which I don’t understand and/or fundamentally disagree with, and which should be rejected without further consideration. However, sometimes, after constructive discussion with the authors and further thought something clicks and I understand the merits of the proposal. I’ve therefore learned not to let first impressions, however deep, sway me from rational analysis.

This, however, is not one of those times, whatever the McMahon/Dickie axis of evil would have you believe. The risk/reward ratio for the Well Society and the club itself is one of the most skewed and unbalanced I’ve ever seen. My recommendation would be to file it in the circular tray, after first setting it on fire just to be on the safe side.

[camer0n_mcd]

Genuinely don't know if I've ever felt so scunnered with the Motherwell support. If this passes through they'll get what they deserve whilst everyone else will be left to clean up the mess at the end of it.

[Doctor Manhattan]

29 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Scab

c**t can't even spell "Erik", despite it being written down for him to copy.

[StAndrew7]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

My recommendation would be to file it in the circular tray, after first setting it on fire just to be on the safe side.

I'd add some petrol as well, just to be sure.

[StAndrew7]

1 minute ago, Doctor Manhattan said:

c**t can't even spell "Erik", despite it being written down for him to copy.

He can definitely spell "Reform UK" though.

[Doctor Manhattan]

8 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

He can definitely spell "Reform UK" though.

Worse still, he likes the new strip.

File under "completely lost fucking cause", and concentrate on the swing voters.

[thisGRAEME]

25 minutes ago, Desp said:

The fact that the above still needs to be said to folk is unreal. 

The level of investment needed for Motherwell to consistently finish above the rest of the 'diddy' clubs would be off the scale. 

The idea that an amount of circa £300k a season is going to get even remotely close to that is now way past being funny, it's downright fucking stupid. 

Hearts have just about managed this, I'd say.

They have, presumably, triple the season ticket holders we have (at least?!), a significantly more wealthy fanbase, bigger commercial operation, oh and the backing of a millionaire with money to burn for a laugh. 

I realise folk know this, but this is the bit that's popping my wee brain as well.

[capt_oats]

43 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

Once again, for those of you at the back who can't quite hear (not you @Handsome_Devil, obvs):

None  of  Barmack's  investment  is  going  towards  the  playing  budget.

They're not chucking money at players.

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Can I just say that the level of incredulity of some of the responses to Barmack's proposal from people working in the creative industry (mostly in @thisGRAEME's mentions) is fair warming my soul.

Sorry to quote myself but when SPFL Mediawatch understands this the gig should be up...

Edited Friday at 11:47 by capt_oats

[Swello]

One aspect of the EB plan that I wonder about is the "people" part of it - as there is nothing explicitly costed for that. A lot what is in there doesn't just require tools and money - it needs actual people to do stuff (I know that automation is a thing, I also know that we are at the very peak of the hype cycle on AI - but neither of these completely solves the problem - and both would require more significant investment than is proposed to do so IMO).

The biggest impediment to getting stuff done at Motherwell isn't lack of ideas or even lack of money - it is (and it always has been) the number of people that we employ. Basically, Motherwell is a much smaller organisation than people generally think it is, when you take away the football dept and part time staff. I got the impression that when Burrows and Russell were there, we had ideas and initiatives coming out of our arse - but there simply wasn't anyone to deliver 90% of it (and that was with burrows and others working silly hours at no extra cost to the club).

McMahon's genuine excuse for why nothing had been done on the investment hunt from one AGM to the next was basically "I had to hire and fire some managers and do some transfer windows".

If we assume that there is a *very* limited amount of hours that any of our current employees can spend on anything other than the core stuff of running the actual club as it is - I would have very serious doubts about how deliverable a lot of the plan is in reality (and to be scrupulously fair - the same could probably be said for some parts the WS plan unless they are relying on volunteer hours). Money can't be spent twice and staff costs in general are a very specific issue at a football club - if you spend more on skilled back office staff, you spend less on the football dept and likely hurt the business in the process.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

Going back to the Grant Russell tweet earlier - I thought we already had a CRM tool in place. Maybe we stopped paying the subscription at some point since he left.

This is something that I'm massively bumping against as well.

The fact that McMahon and Weir openly spoke in a way that suggested they effectively saw no value in the investment the previous CEO and Head of Comms were putting in to that sort of stuff to the point that they chose to make the HoC position redundant.

"We do a good job"

Now McMahon's advocating for a plan based around completely unrealistic CRM expections and a broadly worthless app.

[Handsome_Devil]

8 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Hearts have just about managed this, I'd say.

They have, presumably, triple the season ticket holders we have (at least?!), a significantly more wealthy fanbase, bigger commercial operation, oh and the backing of a millionaire with money to burn for a laugh. 

I realise folk know this, but this is the bit that's popping my wee brain as well.

I don't get into it too much on here being them and not us but I find Hearts absolutely fascinating atm, so since you opened the door...

They have, so far, done everything right - spent money on infrastructure, increased revenue, engaged their fans with the narrative and have achieved, so far not one step beyond what's expected of them and what they regularly did on half the money.

That's not being negative, they're building a solid base from a crap starting point. So fine.

The question is what comes next because how much more money they have than the fourth club matters not a jot compared to how much less they have than the second.

Aberdeen were second best by miles for years and won a single LC just before that period started. Hearts fans are thrilled now, we'll see how long that lasts when they're playing semi dead rubbers in a no man's land of their own by early March.

They'll lose interest, momentum - and with it money - if they stick but how do they viably twist from here? Rely on Europe? Maybe...but we know that gets old too when it's frequent and their guaranteed group cash is dependent on the OF maintaining the coefficient. Hardly a rock solid model. As for actually winning something, their chances are barely better than ours in finding a miracle - they've played Rangers at Hampden three times in three seasons iirc and not laid a glove on them once.

It's miles from an exact comparison to us for various reasons but but highlights the natural ceiling of external donations, never mind investments which need repaid.

[camer0n_mcd]

 

@StAndrew7

 

Edited Friday at 12:10 by camer0n_mcd

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

19 hours ago, Jastons6 said:

Has anyone else noticed the official site has our game v Clyde as being played on Saturday 21st and the Patrick Thistle game on Saturday 28th 

They were still trying to get the score for the last home game correct last time I looked.