Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ZX1886]

And the Scottish cup final in 2018 (i think) with "Flower of scotland". Ugh.

Let’s agree never to get to a cup final again!

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, Allroy for Prez said:

I think 2-0 is our biggest winning margin this season?

Correct.

We've scored three (or more) goals in a game three times under GA.

[fat_tony]

Correct.
We've scored three (or more) goals in a game three times under GA.

Is that just league games or including cups against lower league opposition?

[Handsome_Devil]

2 minutes ago, fat_tony said:

31 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Correct.
We've scored three (or more) goals in a game three times under GA.

Is that just league games or including cups against lower league opposition?

Including cups. We've managed it in the league once, unless I overlooked something.

[Marinello]

Not that I'm preoccupied with the prospect but was wondering if anyone knows if Mugabi is available this Saturday.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I'm almost nostalgic for us bringing on a defender to protect a lead.

41 minutes ago, Marinello said:

Not that I'm preoccupied with the prospect but was wondering if anyone knows if Mugabi is available this Saturday.

I said yesterday that whilst I'm not 100% sure of the rules, I remember Lasley missing two league games after he snapped Fraser Fyvie in a cup game.

[Marinello]

28 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I'm almost nostalgic for us bringing on a defender to protect a lead.

I said yesterday that whilst I'm not 100% sure of the rules, I remember Lasley missing two league games after he snapped Fraser Fyvie in a cup game.

Suspect your right.

[Phillips455]

After reading the rules (found here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/1849/suspensions-for-players-in-mens-football-annex-c-section-4.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwikpv_wnsj2AhWzQkEAHejBBgoQFnoECAQQBg&usg=AOvVaw2Se5dY5NnHFJgo8nwV3qHq) i believe I have found the answer to Mugabis suspension question.

 Part C states that suspensions in the Scottish cup can be carried over to the league. Basically if it is one game then that suspension will be the next cup game. If its 2 then one is the cup and one is the next available match. Any more nd there is aa whole list of exceptions and rules regarding them.

 

Mugabis would definitely be a serious foul play Red card and therefore a 2 match ban. He should be missing the St Johnstone game and then the next Scottish cup game. Assuming he leaves in the summer then that ban will most likely transfer over to that countries cup.

 

So unless they upgrade the ban he should be avilable for thrr St Mirren and Livingston games. Assuming I have read this correctly.

[KirkySuperSub]

Kelly and O'Donnell in the Scotland announced earlier.

[Phillips455]

More Motherwell Players than Rangers players in the scotland squad. Who would have guessed that?

[well fan for life]

16 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

More Motherwell Players than Rangers players in the scotland squad. Who would have guessed that?

The Establishment Club.

[capt_oats]

Get the wee man in the team eh?

[Swami]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Get the wee man in the team eh?

Or even just give him ten minutes at the end of a cup tie that we’re a goal down in. Something mental like that. 

Edited March 15, 2022 by Swami

[eliphas]

18 hours ago, Phillips455 said:

Assuming he leaves in the summer then that ban will most likely transfer over to that countries cup.

Can't see that happening to be honest. He's just signed the new deal to 2024, and I can't see anyone stumping up enough money to the point we sell him this year.

Edited March 16, 2022 by eliphas

[Aldonis]

On 03/03/2022 at 10:41, welldaft said:

Agree. We are still in QF of cup and a couple of points adrift of 4th place.

If you have offered that to any Well fan at the start of the season (after 29 games) they would have said 100% happy with that. Of course taking 4 points form 27 puts a different perspective on it. 

Last night we were undeniably poor. But we still were better than County whatever anyone says on here. The stats back that up as did my own eyes. Would they have scored outside a 50/50 penalty ? 

I am getting pissed off with GA and his tinkering. Never the same defence. And frequent changes in midfield and attack. One or two I could understand but it is always 4 or 5. And will or should be again for Dundee. Thought SODs was poor last night as was Shields, Van Veen, Goss and Donnelly.  Would happily see all of them replaced for the weekend. Van Veen genuinely is only apparently interested if it is a big game with decent atmosphere. Even b4 KO last night I was questioning how he would perform v Ross County midweek in front of low crowd. So no surprise there. 

This game on Saturday and the Cup game define our season. Win both and all of a sudden we are back at it. Lose both and the season is done and we have to hope we pick up enough points to avoid being dragged back into play off discussion even if that still looks remote. We all remember Hibs arse collapse from a few years back. 

 

The people fizzing their pants one week for settled side want changes the next 

[capt_oats]

On 13/03/2022 at 19:46, CoF said:

Just spent half an hour looking at the number of starting 11 changes we make from the previous game (then the subsequent result). It obviously doesn't capture changes in positions and shape, of which there were many. I'm sure folk with more insight than me can say how this compares to other teams / seasons.

- L vs Hibs
1 D vs St Johnstone
3 L vs Dundee (Lg Cup)
4 W vs Livingstone
0 W vs Dundee
3 W v Aberdeen
1 D vs Rangers
1 W vs Ross County
1 L vs Hearts
2 L vs Celtic
2 L Dundee United
2 D vs St Mirren
3 L vs Rangers
3 W vs Aberdeen
3 W vs Hearts
1 D vs Dundee
2 W vs Dundee United
2 D vs Hibs
2 L vs Celtic
3 W vs St Johnstone
2 W vs Livingstone

Winter Break
1 L vs Ross County
2 W vs Greenock (Sc Cup)
1 D vs Hibs
3 L vs Hearts
3 D vs St MIrren
1 L vs Celtic
4 L vs Dundee United
4 W vs Aberdeen (Sc Cup)
0 D vs Aberdeen
5 D vs Rangers***
4 L vs County
2 D vs Dundee
4 L vs Hibs (Sc Cup)

*** p.s. 2-2 vs Rangers, of the 13 outfield players who played at least 45 minutes that game, only 6 started vs Ross County. 

I missed this the other day, cheers for posting it. I guess what would tell us more is which players were being rotated.

Instinctively it felt like up to the winter break we had a fairly consistent starting XI of Kelly, Mugabi (at either RB or CB), McGinley, Slattery, Goss, Woolery, KVV and Watt - so 8 of XI.

A quick check of the league games up to the break shows Kelly played 100% of them, Mugabi started 19 of 20, McGinley 16/20, Slattery 17/20 (of which he was suspended for 1 game), Goss 11/17 (he signed 3 games into the season), Woolery 18/20, KVV 13/20, Watt 18/20.

So it's not far off saying that up until the winter break although there were changes here and there we were mostly working with a settled side for roughly 6 of the starting XI with Goss and KVV starting a reasonable amount.

Since the break though the same players Kelly 10/10, Mugabi 6/10, McGinley 6/10, Slattery 4/10, Goss 8/10, Woolery 5/10, KVV 8/10, Watt n/a.

Fwiw - After the break Carroll has started 7/10 (compared with 5/20 pre-break), SOD 8/10 (13/20), Sol 9/10 (9/16), Donnelly 9/10 (4/20)...(so our more consistent appearances in these 10 games have been Kelly, SOD, Sol, Carroll, Donnelly, Goss, KVV).

I've said before that I (think I) get what Alexander's been trying to do - it's a busy fixture schedule through Jan/Feb/March so presumably the intention has been to try and manage their load to avoid injury/burnout whatever. That's fine especially given the injury situation last season but it's a question of whether it's successful or not and no wins in 10 league games suggests that while there may have been minimal injuries it's definitely impacted results.

Again, it feels to me like he's been tying himself in knots with some unnecessary 4d chess situation.

Edited March 17, 2022 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

Ultimately it will tell at the end of the season.

Certainly at bigger clubs with large squads there's an acceptance that weakening the team a bit early in the season to have fresh legs when the trophies are handed out is intuitively worth it. Does it have a points value? Genuine question I've no idea. Would Liverpool or Man City, in a bawhair tight title race, right now say resting players but drawing a couple in October or February is worth those four points to be fully fit now? Or would they regret not putting every point on the board and just take their chances now with players a little more tired?

If that is the plan it's safe to say our price in points has been a fucking high one. But if we storm home with 16 points from the last 24 when everyone else is dropping like flies, GA would be entitled to say told you so.

However, if we apply the old Occam's Razor, what's more likely - we have a devilishly cunning plan which is about to come to fruition or GA simply doesn't know what he's doing and is repeating the mistakes which got him sacked three times before?

Edited March 17, 2022 by Handsome_Devil

[capt_oats]

4 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Ultimately it will tell at the end of the season.

Certainly at bigger clubs with large squads there's an acceptance that weakening the team a bit early in the season to have fresh legs when the trophies are handed out is intuitively worth it. Does it have a points value? Genuine question I've no idea. Would Liverpool or Man City, in a bawhair tight title race, right now say resting players but drawing a couple in October or February is worth those four points to be fully fit now? Or would they regret not putting every point on the board and just take their chances now with players a little more tired?

If that is the plan it's safe to say our price in points has been a fucking high one. But if we storm home with 16 points from the last 24 when everyone else is dropping like flies, GA would be entitled to say told you so.

However, if we apply the old Occam's Razor, what's more likely - we have a devilishly cunning plan which is about to come to fruition or GA simply doesn't know what he's doing and is repeating the mistakes which got him sacked three times before?

I mean, I don't know enough about how he managed Fleetwood, Scunthorpe or Salford to know what mistakes he made.

I can only take Neville's word as to why they binned Alexander and that seemed to be largely down to his style of play and wanting to go in a different direction. They were unbeaten in their opening 5 league games (2 wins and 3 draws) and were 5th in the league (they finished 8th having went through another 2 managers that season).

He left Fleetwood in September of the 15/16 season after they'd lost 3 on the bounce (they were P 10 W 2 D 3 L 5) - he'd finished 4th and 10th in his previous full seasons with them.

Scunthorpe's the one that seems to draw parallels in terms of form though. They were 4th in League 1 on 1st of January then went on a run of 1 win in 13 (7 draws) and he was sacked with them 5th on 24th March. The prospect of dropping out the play-offs seems to be the motivation in binning him (they've since gone through 7 managers (including McCall), been relegated and are now bottom of League 2).

What seems clear (to me) with his body of work with us is that something's changed during/after the winter break. Aside from the tombola element there have been a handful of players who weren't getting games earlier in the season pitched in and playing on the regular while others who were starting almost week in, week out in a team that was broadly doing well have seen their minutes reduced.

Maybe I'm misremembering but when he was in the door, Declan's gun to the head incident aside, it seemed a fairly settled team he was putting out that dug us out the hole Robinson got us in and August to December it was really only a revolving cast in the back 4. Kelly starts and the front 3 were pretty much stick ons as were at least 2 of the midfield 3.

Tbh, where we are feels like a misjudgement in the same way he seemed to misjudge the League Cup. It was clear that we were using those games as pre-season and the rotation we were seeing there was about getting players minutes on the park and hoping it'd be enough to get us the results.

Edited March 17, 2022 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

 

2 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

If that is the plan it's safe to say our price in points has been a fucking high one. But if we storm home with 16 points from the last 24 when everyone else is dropping like flies, GA would be entitled to say told you so.

Saving ourselves for the post-split games.

We're going to finish the ABSOLUTE f**k out of 7th place.

Edited March 17, 2022 by YassinMoutaouakil

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I missed this the other day, cheers for posting it. I guess what would tell us more is which players were being rotated.

I think having a settled defence is massively important in any team and I think that's been one of our downfalls this season.

Having looked at it, we've made at least one change to our defence in 24 / 38 competitive games this season.

We've had 21 different combinations used in defence.

The longest we've gone without a change to personnel or shape is three games.