Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ropy]

Was Sol meant to be marking the boy that scored the second? Poor effort.

[Kapowzer]

As a few other posters have alluded we need to all calm down and take an honest reflection where we are.

Hammy inherited a shit show and many of us would have been happy to weather the storm. The fact we were sitting on 9 points from a possible 12 maybe made some think we were contenders? Maybe if we dropped a few more points than the 13 we amassed for the first round of fixtures (I think it was 14 in 2021-22) there may be a bit more reality and appreciation of the task in hand.

The fixtures also were very beneficial for us, loading August and September with the winnable games.

What helped us last season was the 2nd round of fixtures, again I'm doing this from memory but 19 from 33 seems to stick in the mind as its what Ross County got in the third.

The league table is now compressing after Killie and Ross County have got results and the middle pack seems to be resembling last season where nobody actually put any degree of consistency together with everyone taking points off each other.

Hammy needs to address his defence as its simply too weak at this level. For all the Shields haters, I agree he has more cons than pro's but it was his muscle and determination to win the ball and put into the box for McKinstry. I always seen him as a poacher rather than a winger which is what he's been asked to play exclusively since his arrival.

[ropy]

Shields should have had two assists. He gave KVV a hard stare before he wheeled away.

[capt_oats]

I don't think this is necessarily new information to anyone but here are the starting line ups for October:

22/10 vs Aberdeen (1-2): Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Goss, Slattery, Spittal, Tierney, McKinstry (1); Van Veen
19/10 vs Celtic (0-4): Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Goss, Slattery; Spittal, McKinstry, Shields; Van Veen
16/10 vs Rangers (1-2): Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Goss, Slattery; Tierney, Morris, McKinstry (1); Van Veen
08/10 vs Hibs (1-0); Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Goss, Slattery; Spittal, Efford, Shields; Van Veen
04/10 vs Ross County (0-5); Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Goss, Slattery (1); Spittal, Efford (1), Shields; Van Veen (3)
01/10 vs Celtic (2-1); Kelly; McGinn, Solholm, Lamie, Penney; Maguire, Goss; Cornelius, Spittal, Shields; Van Veen

That's 9 of the starting XI started the 3 games in 7 days and 7 of the XI started all 6. Another 2 have started 5 of the 6.

I mean, fair fucks that's McKinstry now on 2 goals in his last 3 starts.

Interestingly (or not) we're still only 2 points shy of the points after the same number of games last season and we've scored the same number of goals but have conceded 5 fewer.

Edited October 24, 2022 by capt_oats

[ropy]

Is McKinstry a goal in each of his only two league starts?

[capt_oats]

Media team dishing out the VAR receipts. 

Hit his "hip" aye?

Edited October 24, 2022 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I'm probably as concerned as I have been since the 16/17 campaign under McGhee, ngl. Something about us parting ways with a dour but effective-ish manager, replacing him with a club legend, bringing back another one that turns out to be crocked, playing expansive football but losing most weeks, relying on KVV... I'm not saying I've seen this movie before,  because that'd be a very specific movie, but if I had to imagine a Motherwell relegation scenario, this seems like a fairly plausible one.

Probably what worries me most is that there's not really a nailed on basketcase club that we can look at and go aye, we'll finish above them. Killie and St Johnstone have competent managers that will grind out points. Dundee United are in a similar state as us but have better players. Ross County will win 10 on the bounce starting in February. I'm not sure we can rely on another post-Christmas Stephen Robinson meltdown.

[kingjoey]

23 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Media team dishing out the VAR receipts. 

Hit his "hip" aye?

If you zoom in you clearly see all of his hand but not all of the ball. So yes, the ball did hit his hip.

[rowsdower]

I'd be pissed if a penalty was given against us for that handball.

[capt_oats]

2 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

If you zoom in you clearly see all of his hand but not all of the ball. So yes, the ball did hit his hip.

[kingjoey]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

But folk will just see what they want to anyway. 

[capt_oats]

26 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm probably as concerned as I have been since the 16/17 campaign under McGhee, ngl. Something about us parting ways with a dour but effective-ish manager, replacing him with a club legend, bringing back another one that turns out to be crocked, playing expansive football but losing most weeks, relying on KVV... I'm not saying I've seen this movie before,  because that'd be a very specific movie, but if I had to imagine a Motherwell relegation scenario, this seems like a fairly plausible one.

Fwiw: here's the table from that season.

Here are our results for the first 12 games:

Tbh, the positive this season is that league-wise we've been in every game. Which I don't think folk necessarily saw coming.

The worry I have is whether or not Hammell is able to fix our problems. Like, we're undoubtedly creating chances but failing to convert them. Week in, week out we're hearing him talk about our defending but we're still making the same mistakes.

It's all very well actually being expansive but if he's seeing faults on a Saturday but we keep repeating them then that's...a problem.

If Moult and Aarons were brought in as a solution to the lack of depth in our forwards line but both are broken then what's his plan? It's still 2 and a bit months to the window opens.

@Casagolda mentioned it in a post the other day when they mentioned that the problem(s) we have at the moment can be traced back to the summer where we seemed caught between two stools with Alexander and ended up in a kind of stasis and did neither one thing or the other.

I mean, we're definitely fixable and if everyone was fit I think we've a decent enough mid-table side (I always did tbf) but the idea of just sitting on our hands and hoping to fix things in January doesn't seem particularly wise (IMO).

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

But folk will just see what they want to anyway. 

You're testament to that. No doubt.

[kingjoey]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

You're testament to that. No doubt.

I think you mean we both are. (Although I'm obviously right)

[capt_oats]

3 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I think you mean we both are. (Although I'm obviously right)

No. I know what I mean thanks.

[CoF]

29 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

If you zoom in you clearly see all of his hand but not all of the ball. So yes, the ball did hit his hip.

Kinda irrelevant when Stewart was trying to get a peek at Lamie's nipples just seconds before. 

[Allroy for Prez]

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I'm probably as concerned as I have been since the 16/17 campaign under McGhee, ngl. Something about us parting ways with a dour but effective-ish manager, replacing him with a club legend, bringing back another one that turns out to be crocked, playing expansive football but losing most weeks, relying on KVV... I'm not saying I've seen this movie before,  because that'd be a very specific movie, but if I had to imagine a Motherwell relegation scenario, this seems like a fairly plausible one.

Probably what worries me most is that there's not really a nailed on basketcase club that we can look at and go aye, we'll finish above them. Killie and St Johnstone have competent managers that will grind out points. Dundee United are in a similar state as us but have better players. Ross County will win 10 on the bounce starting in February. I'm not sure we can rely on another post-Christmas Stephen Robinson meltdown.

Totally agree. 

I’ve been shouted down and laughed at by anyone who’ll listen to me about similarly doom laden scenarios over the years but this is it this season lads, this is the year I fear…..

Nothing will convince me otherwise especially if we break for the World Cup still on the same points total are we’re on now.

[welldaft]

We had a better start to the season than any of us thought even considering the fixture list.

But this period very much reminds me of the time recently we played Celtic 3 times in one week. I think that is right. It basically fucked us for the rest of that season or certainly the immediate aftermath.

We have a paper thin squad. Playing the old firm back to back and then a tough home game to Aberdeen is sadly a step too far. All 3 of those teams can rotate their squads. 

You can see how much injuries and a packed fixture list is wreaking havoc with Hearts season. They have the 3rd best squad but are 1 point above us in the table and we have only won 1 games in last 7. 

It was not that long ago we were playing exciting football and creating 40 chances v United and Hearts at home.  The results were not great but we all recognised it was a very good standard of football. That seems to have gone for now. 

We can only hope a free week will allow some recovery. That and less pressure being away from home. But United have a much better squad on paper. Their midfield and attacking options are a step up. They are likely to get back on track. We just need to get a positive result somehow - some way. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by welldaft

[YassinMoutaouakil]

1 hour ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Totally agree. 

I’ve been shouted down and laughed at by anyone who’ll listen to me about similarly doom laden scenarios over the years but this is it this season lads, this is the year I fear…..

Nothing will convince me otherwise especially if we break for the World Cup still on the same points total are we’re on now.

We will be the two most respected posters in the Championship forum next year at least. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by YassinMoutaouakil

['WellDel]

1 hour ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Totally agree. 

I’ve been shouted down and laughed at by anyone who’ll listen to me about similarly doom laden scenarios over the years but this is it this season lads, this is the year I fear…..

Nothing will convince me otherwise especially if we break for the World Cup still on the same points total are we’re on now.

Going into the first game of the season and having witnessed the Sligo shambles I think 'Well fans to a man would have held the same fear. However, after the first round of fixtures we're hardly cut adrift and, amongst some admitted negatives and some situations where luck has deserted us, I do still have some optimism.

If we can somehow muster 3 or 4 points from the next few games before the World Cup break we'll still be well in the pack and, at the restart, heading into a run of games where we'd  be looking to increase the points tally, as this past few weeks has been a wretched run against mostly top end sides whilst suffering injury losses and drops in form of key players. 

Of the teams around us, United have a quality but under performing squad, Killie have an experienced manager who should have the ability to steer them clear of trouble, and County have uncle Roy's millions to try and buy them safety. St Johnstone aren't great and short of punting Davidson they will be in the mix, and St Mirren's form will level off with them dropping back into the pack. Every one of these sides by luck or design though could quite easily hit a run of injuries or crisis of confidence that plummets them into a tailspin towards the bottom.

I've been quite comfortable from the get go that this will be a squeaky bum season and that's exactly how its panning out. A rest over the shutdown followed by a return to form for the likes of KVV and Slattery would help immensely. The dream on top of that would be a quality addition to the centre of defence who knows how to actually marshal a back line, and in the continued absence of the busted flush that is Louis Moult, another central forward to take theve pressure off the currently misfiring Van Veen.

This is far from a vintage MFC squad, probably one of the poorest I've seen in almost 40 years of going to Fir Park. I'm fairly sure I will see us go down again at some point, and for a team of our resources a near 40 year top flight stay is nothing short of remarkable (a given that league reconstruction and Lolkirk have helped us out along the way),but I have hope yet that we'll survive once more.