Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[ZX1886]

Van Veen / Obika partnership is going to fire us to Europe

[wellboy1991]

26 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

It's got to be Kettlewell until the end of the season.

Apart from arguably Butcher, who'd probably rather be in midfield, there are no square pegs in round holes and I think that's big. The wing backs are being maximised where they are. McGinn probably is more of a right of a back three type player than a proper full back. The midfield seems balanced and we're seeing the best out of KVV when he's not the lone striker or the guy we're launching the ball up to.

I do feel a bit for McKinstry as he was one of very few with their heads above water under Hammell, but what can we do if we've found a system that can't accommodate him.

Goss and Spittal have both been so good under Kettlewell, you can't help but wonder what was going on with them before. Particularly Goss, any time he's had any praise in the past, it's been for making passes, this version Kettlewell seems to have unearthed runs and tackles too...

As much as I agree with our defence looking better without Lamie, I reckon he could come in to this current system and do a job, now that there's more leadership around. 

Kettlewell seems full of energy and enthusiasm and as much I will always love Hammell and I've no doubt he wanted nothing more than to succeed, you could say the opposite of him - in the last few weeks, the job seemed to weigh really heavy on him. He seemed drained of everything, in particular, his presser before the Raith game, he looked awful. Maybe this experience might have been him finding out that being a manager wasn't quite for him. Good luck to him in whatever happens next for him.

 

Agree with most of this Joe, however for me Blaney should come into the defence ahead of Lamie. 
 

A back three of Casey - Butcher - Blaney would be solid. 
 

 

[Kapowzer]

I know we’re a bit scared of signing anyone up too early (Alexander a year ago and all that jazz) but Butcher is the type of guy you can build a team around. Combine that with him being flexible and able to play in two key roles (centre half and midfield) that we’ve been deficient in. Getting his signature tied up is key for me. All encouraging stuff since he arrived while I’d be content if he stays in a defensive role I’m equally excited to see what he can do if pushed forward to his preferred position. He has the ability to raise the game of those around him.

Casey, many scoffed at MLS division 2 but he was composed and impressed since his arrival. But importantly, he places Lamie in his correct role at the club …. as a backup centre half.

Johnson’s agent will be looking to see who’s offering the most obviously and based on what was said at the AGM instructions from his client that it has to also include a first team start. Another priority signing for me, just because I think his value is headed in only one direction.

McKinstry is another who just wants to play football but with a new regime incoming at Leeds his future may be reassessed there. Like @crazylegsjoe_mfc, I feel a bit for him in our current regime transition, he seems to have not done too well out of it despite nothing to justify moving down the pecking order. Wee Tierney also seems as far away for game time as he ever has.

Goss and Spittal are ones that continue to frustrate and bring joy in equal measure. A double redemption arc in a season for the former is some going. Regardless of the last few games they are still both among the last picks I’d make if I was in a trench but SK is getting a handsome return out of them.

Hopefully competition for spaces now makes the likes of Slattery up his game. If Slattery and the club both want a move this summer which was always the plan, then he needs to step up a gear in the 12 games left.

Kelly was another signed on a three year deal and the optimum selling time is this summer. Now with a competent defence ahead of him again, you’d hope potential buyers will look to his immediate form up to the summer than the whole season (or reference @Busta Nut critiques on here). 

With a brace on his debut I’d hope Mandron offers a lot in the run in and Bazooka Joe is not far off returning too. This team is good enough to stay up easily when coached well. If we'd signed Mikey Devlin on a free I'd have felt confident of pushing for top 6.

However please drag any management decision out till after Killie away. That would be the best decision the board could make at present.

From what I’ve seen, the strongest team we have seems to be on form and fit at present:

———-——— Kelly ———-———-

— McGinn - Casey - Blaney —

Johnson ———-—-—— Furlong

———- Butcher - Goss ————

—————- Spittal ——————-

——-—— KvV - Okiba ——--—-

It’s telling that 6 of that 11 were not available for selection in December (Johnson being the 6th and with a caveat while on the books, out on loan).

*It does and will always make me feel weird adding Spittal and Goss to any lineup regardless of recent form.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Kapowzer

[AmericanFan]

7 hours ago, well fan for life said:

I, for one, welcome the return of The Woodshed. That's St Mirren and Hearts taken there this week.

[rowsdower]

1 hour ago, Kapowzer said:

I know we’re a bit scared of signing anyone up too early (Alexander a year ago and all that jazz) but Butcher is the type of guy you can build a team around. Combine that with him being flexible and able to play in two key roles (centre half and midfield) that we’ve been deficient in. Getting his signature tied up is key for me. All encouraging stuff since he arrived while I’d be content if he stays in a defensive role I’m equally excited to see what he can do if pushed forward to his preferred position. He has the ability to raise the game of those around him.

Casey, many scoffed at MLS division 2 but he was composed and impressed since his arrival. But importantly, he places Lamie in his correct role at the club …. as a backup centre half.

Johnson’s agent will be looking to see who’s offering the most obviously and based on what was said at the AGM instructions from his client that it has to also include a first team start. Another priority signing for me, just because I think his value is headed in only one direction.

McKinstry is another who just wants to play football but with a new regime incoming at Leeds his future may be reassessed there. Like @crazylegsjoe_mfc, I feel a bit for him in our current regime transition, he seems to have not done too well out of it despite nothing to justify moving down the pecking order. Wee Tierney also seems as far away for game time as he ever has.

Goss and Spittal are ones that continue to frustrate and bring joy in equal measure. A double redemption arc in a season for the former is some going. Regardless of the last few games they are still both among the last picks I’d make if I was in a trench but SK is getting a handsome return out of them.

Hopefully competition for spaces now makes the likes of Slattery up his game. If Slattery and the club both want a move this summer which was always the plan, then he needs to step up a gear in the 12 games left.

Kelly was another signed on a three year deal and the optimum selling time is this summer. Now with a competent defence ahead of him again, you’d hope potential buyers will look to his immediate form up to the summer than the whole season (or reference @Busta Nut critiques on here). 

With a brace on his debut I’d hope Mandron offers a lot in the run in and Bazooka Joe is not far off returning too. This team is good enough to stay up easily when coached well. If we'd signed Mikey Devlin on a free I'd have felt confident of pushing for top 6.

However please drag any management decision out till after Killie away. That would be the best decision the board could make at present.

From what I’ve seen, the strongest team we have seems to be on form and fit at present:

———-——— Kelly ———-———-

— McGinn - Casey - Blaney —

Johnson ———-—-—— Furlong

———- Butcher - Goss ————

—————- Spittal ——————-

——-—— KvV - Okiba ——--—-

It’s telling that 6 of that 11 were not available for selection in December (Johnson being the 6th and with a caveat while on the books, out on loan).

*It does and will always make me feel weird adding Spittal and Goss to any lineup regardless of recent form.

We have butcher for next season too. 

It will be interesting to see who we try to keep, outside of Johnston, who is a no brainer.  I like Casey and obika, and the flashes i've seen of Aitchison. I wonder if Casey is just a short term deal until the US season starts again. 

Realistically I think the new manager will want to bring in their own players, so I don't see us going all out to retain the out of contract folk. 

[Kapowzer]

28 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

We have butcher for next season too. 

It will be interesting to see who we try to keep, outside of Johnston, who is a no brainer.  I like Casey and obika, and the flashes i've seen of Aitchison. I wonder if Casey is just a short term deal until the US season starts again. 

Realistically I think the new manager will want to bring in their own players, so I don't see us going all out to retain the out of contract folk. 

Yeah I know, I meant long term like how Alexander had a year added to his 18 months left one. I didn't make it clear, sorry.

On 28/01/2023 at 09:59, capt_oats said:

I guess with Danzaki confirmed that frees Shields up to confirm any loan move. I see the news story on the official has him as a 'forward' rather than a midfielder.

Here's the contract situation:

2023: O'Donnell (30), Carroll (31), McGinn (32), Johnston (19), Cornelius (21), Goss (27), Efford (26), Mandron (28)
2024: Kelly (27), Oxborough (24), Lamie (29), Mugabi (27), Johansen (27), McGinley (26), Maguire (24), Spittal (27), Slattery (23), Van Veen (31), Morris (31), Shields (25)
2025: Blaney (24), Danzaki (22), Tierney (21), Miller (16)

Loans expiring 2023: McKinstry (20) (Leeds United - 2023), Crankshaw (24) (Stockport County - 2024)

You'd say based on the above SOD, Carroll are toast. McGinn is OK for cover, Johnson is a no brainer. Cornelius yeah for a few reasons (supporter, age, drive and cost), Efford is a wait and see. Mandron is in his footballing peak and we're in no place to make a decision. Goss is the tricky one as he's currently in a 2 game purple patch.

As I said, this summer you'd looking to be selling Kelly, Slattery too, both their stock has gone down though. Lamie kept only as a backup, Mugabi if he gets offered something I'd take it (but would miss our 5th striking option), Sol's gone and for money (wonder if we broke even there?), McGinley can a deal can be done to just draw a line under it. Maguire is not SPFL standard which is a kick in the baws for us and him. Spittal I'd leave alone as with Kev but accept offers. Morris we need to double our efforts to move on. You'd hope his stint at Queens Park will rejuvenate Shields to return and push on, I do feel Kettlewell would use him as part of a front two rather than a winger.

I'd look to retain McKinstry but wouldn't push the boat out unless we can jettison some of the expensive players above. Crankshaw hasn't done much right nor wrong but he's a bit part player from now on I reckon, we have more of our own assets I think need a shop window in the run up to summer.

[Handsome_Devil]

I'd look to keep mckinstry for his potential but you do wonder if we can justify it - should we be primarily 3-5-2 - when he'd need to start challenging several others to start in a different position.

MJ obviously a keep if possible and I'd be very wary of extending anyone else on the basis a short turnaround. 

Edit to add I'd happily keep mcginn too. He's always been in the 'fine' camp played anything like his normal roles.

If we are playing two up I certainly wouldn't rush to get rid of KVV but agree taking cash, if offered, for Kelly and Slattery to use elsewhere a decent move.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Handsome_Devil

[Kapowzer]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'd look to keep mckinstry for his potential but you do wonder if we can justify it - should we be primarily 3-5-2 - when he'd need to start challenging several others to start in a different position.

MJ obviously a keep if possible and I'd be very wary of extending anyone else on the basis a short turnaround. 

Edit to add I'd happily keep mcginn too. He's always been in the 'fine' camp played anything like his normal roles.

If we are playing two up I certainly wouldn't rush to get rid of KVV but agree taking cash, if offered, for Kelly and Slattery to use elsewhere a decent move.

No rush with Kev but I think there is as good or better out there. I mean he's on course for a 20 goal season but does he seem like a 20 goal striker to you? We are a selling team so everyone has a price. Guys brought in on a 3 year deal the next window is the last we can realise a good return but only if they step up in the next few months. Otherwise their chance diminish as does their next salary expectations.

[Dosser1886]

10 hours ago, wellboy1991 said:

Agree with most of this Joe, however for me Blaney should come into the defence ahead of Lamie. 
 

A back three of Casey - Butcher - Blaney would be solid. 
 

 

Lamie should nowhere near the first team ever again.

[Dosser1886]

Been one of Spittals biggest critics but when actually played in his correct position, something that can be said about quite a few of the team, he was excellent yesterday and on Wednesday. Like a few of the team he looks to be enjoying his football again.

[Richie]

What a difference a week makes.

Trying not to get too carried away at this point, but have gone from hoping to scrape a play-off win, to relative optimism

Wed was a graft that we saw out, yesterday was a very pleasant surprise.

Whilst Hearts had a couple of chances, it wasn't backs to the wall by any stretch of the imagination.

We now have a CB pairing that on the face of it clear their lines first and ask questions later.

Obika is helping the ball stick up top, which is allowing us to more easily impact/dictate the game, rather than get immediate return fire.

Gos has effictively been a new signing. Very good yesterday and unlucky not to ping one in the top corner.

Makes Killie on Sat a big opportunity as a win there guarantees us to uncrease the distance between us and Utd/Ross Co or both, as they will be busy cutting each other's throats in Dingwall.

A draw between them and 3 points for us probably best scenario.

[capt_oats]

Lads, we no longer have the worst home record in the league.

[thisGRAEME]

1 hour ago, Kapowzer said:

No rush with Kev but I think there is as good or better out there. I mean he's on course for a 20 goal season but does he seem like a 20 goal striker to you? 

He's on track to be our top scorer since.. 2014? I think?

I canny mind who else it is that keeps asking, but honestly what else do folk want?!

[supermarv]

2 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

He's on track to be our top scorer since.. 2014? I think?

I canny mind who else it is that keeps asking, but honestly what else do folk want?!

Aye on his game and for about the best part of the season he’s been the only kind of shining light with goals. Yes he can be lazy but by f**k Wednesday and yesterday he worked his socks off and his daft wee runs from nowhere to get us up the park are excellent. He’s a good guy maybe with a bit of an attitude but everyone ends up at Motherwell for different reasons and he clearly loves being here.

[eliphas]

Kettlewell has been offered and likely announced today if all goes well I've heard. Deal currently being done. 

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

He's on track to be our top scorer since.. 2014? I think?

I canny mind who else it is that keeps asking, but honestly what else do folk want?!

Aye, he's on 15 in all comps - 11 in the league.

Previous top scorers (all comps):
21/22 - Kevin Van Veen (11)
20/21 - Devante Cole (12)
19/20* - Liam Donnelly/Chris Long (11) - season curtailed
18/19 - David Turnbull (15)
17/18 - Louis Moult (14) - left in December '17
16/17 - Louis Moult (18)
15/16 - Louis Moult (18)
14/15 - John Sutton (13)
13/14 - John Sutton (22)
12/13 -  Michael Higdon (27)
11/12 - Michael Higdon (16)
10/11 - John Sutton (17)
09/10 - John Sutton (13)
08/09 - David Clarkson (13)
07/08 - Chris Porter (18)
06/07 - Scott McDonald (16)
05/06 - Richie Foran (12)
04/05 - Scott McDonald (15)
03/04 - David Clarkson (14)
02/03 - James McFadden (19)
01/02 - Stuart Elliot (12)
00/01 - Stuart Elliot (12)

Edited February 20, 2023 by capt_oats

[ropy]

1 hour ago, Dosser1886 said:

Lamie should nowhere near the first team ever again.

Surely Lamie gets to have his Kettlewell bounce like the others, he is a bit further down the pecking order though.

[ropy]

19 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Kettlewell has been offered and likely announced today if all goes well I've heard. Deal currently being done. 

The full time or even extended trial gig is different to what he has been asked to do to date.  I don’t know how many fit players we have or how many are on their way back like Bevis but if we have a fixed formation and settled 11 there may be a few of them that don’t get game time. That is when the 2 and 3 man cliques form.  Maybe Kettlewell’s communication and approach will keep the squad together but it isn’t the same task as taking the group for the next 3 days with a game at the end of it.

Edited February 20, 2023 by ropy

[welldaft]

19 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Kettlewell has been offered and likely announced today if all goes well I've heard. Deal currently being done. 

Wonder if he keeps Clarkson as assistant ?

If so does Hammell move back to Head of Academy. Would like that but whether Hammy would want to do that. Would have to swallow his pride somewhat. 

I would like deal till end of season for Kettlewell with clause allowing extension for both parties. But I guess it will be this season + 1 most probably. 

[Handsome_Devil]

2 hours ago, Kapowzer said:

No rush with Kev but I think there is as good or better out there. I mean he's on course for a 20 goal season but does he seem like a 20 goal striker to you? We are a selling team so everyone has a price. Guys brought in on a 3 year deal the next window is the last we can realise a good return but only if they step up in the next few months. Otherwise their chance diminish as does their next salary expectations.

Everyone has a price but I don't think we'll get that much for him well into his 30s with one year left on his contract.

Better is available sure, would we definitely find and sign it...less sure.