Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Gallus Numpty]

15 minutes ago, ropy said:

The full time or even extended trial gig is different to what he has been asked to do to date.  I don’t know how many fit players we have or how many are on their way back like Bevis but if we have a fixed formation and settled 11 there may be a few of them that don’t get game time. That is when the 2 and 3 man cliques form.  Maybe Kettlewell’s communication and approach will keep the squad together but it isn’t the same task as taking the group for the next 3 days with a game at the end of it.

True enough, but also potentially true for anyone else we bring in now - any manager joining a club in our predicament will probably try to get out of it with a settled team and a simple gameplan. For all the stick they get, I don't envy the board having to make this decision at this point in the season.

Edited February 20, 2023 by Gallus Numpty

[Handsome_Devil]

7 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Wonder if he keeps Clarkson as assistant ?

If so does Hammell move back to Head of Academy. Would like that but whether Hammy would want to do that. Would have to swallow his pride somewhat. 

I would like deal till end of season for Kettlewell with clause allowing extension for both parties. But I guess it will be this season + 1 most probably. 

I would again prefer a more experienced assistant coming in... Clarkson was literally just promoted on the youth side, let him to that. 

[eliphas]

12 minutes ago, ropy said:

The full time or even extended trial gig is different to what he has been asked to do to date.

Aye, I think that's especially valid. 

On the positive - The last two games have been great and it's more than a simple new manager bounce for me. Kettlewell has identified quickly what would work with the available players and we've got two wins at home under his stewardship. He changed the formation, system and asked players to do different things. So it's not just a case of same players, same setup and they've reacted to a new voice.

The worry - But, what's next? Will he have a plan B or C when we go behind and have to chase a game? Will he have a plan when the other teams figure out we play a different shape and play a different way now? 

I've got no real reason to think he won't be able to address these things though, and bringing in a McCann or Holloway (shudder) is maybe more of a risk as not only are you hoping all of the above but you also don't even have a base and momentum to build from in a way Kettlewell has. 

Feels like the least risky option which is probably what we need right now.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by eliphas

[Ceiling Granny]

It’s interesting to consider how long Kettlewell has been looking at the squad and thinking what he would do different prior to last week. I mean, if I’m him and I have a desire to go back into first team management, and I know that if Hammell gets punted I’ll probably get 1/2 games to prove myself, I would definitely have put a lot of background work in while Hammell was still in charge in terms of looking at what players we have, how the teams we have coming up are playing etc.  Absolutely nothing wrong with him doing this, but the notion he walked in last week and started from zero isn’t quite there (I’m not sure anyone is suggesting this to be fair, just interesting to add context).
 

I‘m not taking away from what Kettlewell has done btw, yesterday was far, far better than I was expecting (I’d have settled for a decent performance). 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I hope I'm not jumping the gun here, but I think in our current system we will actually begin to see the best of KVV. 

Obika is happy that his place is to be a nuisance to defenders, shrug players off, win flick-ons and occasionally get on the end of something coming in to the box (like he did yesterday). 

Given we have so seldom played a front-two in Van Veen's time here, many of us (myself included) were perhaps tricked in to thinking that given he's about 6'1", he would be typecast in to being the big man of a front two, whereas in the last two games, he's been able to roam in to pockets of space and do what he's best at, knowing the focal point in Obika is occupying the centre halves.

Arguably, without a target man beside him, Van Veen isn't in the position where he should have got a penalty yesterday, or the position where he crossed for Spittal's goal.

 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

We could relive the Elliot Frear glory days and put Mckinstry at LWB.

[ropy]

4 minutes ago, Ceiling Granny said:

It’s interesting to consider how long Kettlewell has been looking at the squad and thinking what he would do different prior to last week. I mean, if I’m him and I have a desire to go back into first team management, and I know that if Hammell gets punted I’ll probably get 1/2 games to prove myself, I would definitely have put a lot of background work in while Hammell was still in charge in terms of looking at what players we have, how the teams we have coming up are playing etc.  Absolutely nothing wrong with him doing this, but the notion he walked in last week and started from zero isn’t quite there (I’m not sure anyone is suggesting this to be fair, just interesting to add context).
 

I‘m not taking away from what Kettlewell has done btw, yesterday was far, far better than I was expecting (I’d have settled for a decent performance). 

I suspect this is true, and should have been true of Hammell.  However a bunch of the players weren’t in the building when Kettlewell would be doing his background work.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

He's on track to be our top scorer since.. 2014? I think?

I canny mind who else it is that keeps asking, but honestly what else do folk want?!

This. KVV gets discouraged when he just spends a whole game chasing 2 central defenders pinging the ball to each other and getting no service but when he's actually in the thick of it, he's effective at our level and he's probably one of these players that opposition supporters rate higher than we do.

Getting the best out of mercurial (used to love when that was used in match reports) forwards is a big part of management at all levels and it seems pretty clear to me that KVV loves playing with a partner rather than on his own (look at the times that Moult and him actually got some time together). The shift in tactics under Kettlewell last week undoubtedly play to Kev's strengths more than a lone striker role or (worse) sticking him on the left wing.

tl;dr - KVV has scored plenty and is as good as we'll get.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Half wonder if Kettlewell applied in August. Seems strange that he wouldn't.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Lads, we no longer have the worst home record in the league.

The next two games could see us charge back up that ‘away’ table.

[thisGRAEME]

9 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

Obika is happy that his place is to be a nuisance to defenders, shrug players off, win flick-ons and occasionally get on the end of something coming in to the box (like he did yesterday). 

There was a point in the second half where we won a corner, and the two of them were just laughing and grinning at one another as they'd just fucked up the hearts backline for the 20th time.

I'd say yes, they're both enjoying it.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Aye, he's on 15 in all comps - 11 in the league.

Previous top scorers (all comps):
21/22 - Kevin Van Veen (11)
20/21 - Devante Cole (12)
19/20* - Liam Donnelly/Chris Long (11) - season curtailed
18/19 - David Turnbull (15)
17/18 - Louis Moult (14) - left in December '17
16/17 - Louis Moult (18)
15/16 - Louis Moult (18)
14/15 - John Sutton (13)
13/14 - John Sutton (22)
12/13 -  Michael Higdon (27)
11/12 - Michael Higdon (16)
10/11 - John Sutton (17)
09/10 - John Sutton (13)
08/09 - David Clarkson (13)
07/08 - Chris Porter (18)
06/07 - Scott McDonald (16)
05/06 - Richie Foran (12)
04/05 - Scott McDonald (15)
03/04 - David Clarkson (14)
02/03 - James McFadden (19)
01/02 - Stuart Elliot (12)
00/01 - Stuart Elliot (12)

Given that at our budget level, you're basically looking for a striker that hits double figures - we've done really well with centre forwards (and er, Liam Donnelly) over the years based on that list.
 

Also Sutton probably doesn't get the full Moult/Higdon man-love to the extent that he deserves.

[thisGRAEME]

5 minutes ago, Swello said:

Also Sutton probably doesn't get the full Moult/Higdon man-love to the extent that he deserves.

His more recent self-appointed 'researcher' position has kind of ceased that kind of behaviour from me, tbh.

[well fan for life]

6 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

There was a point in the second half where we won a corner, and the two of them were just laughing and grinning at one another as they'd just fucked up the hearts backline for the 20th time.

I'd say yes, they're both enjoying it.

As much as I've been thinking Sibbick's a smashing player for Hearts oor Jon completely ragdolled him yesterday. At various points he was holding off 3 folk at a time. Fair fucks to Kettlewell because I fair enjoyed myself watching a return to thunderdome fitba. 

[Yoshi-91]

Holy f**k what a difference in effort, unreal, even seen KVV tracking back and putting in tackles, had to pinch myself. I said it after Wednesday but yesterday bolsters the question of WTF must have been going on under Hammell? His player management must be rid rotten for them to have that kind of turn around in effort. I don't think there can be any question about the players downing tools. Don't get me wrong, we are not out the woods yet, and the same thing happened when Hammell first stepped in then we quickly slid off and it wouldn't shock me if it happened again (although I do hope not). If we play to that standard the rest of the season we are safe, lets just hope we keep it up. 

[Swello]

13 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

His more recent self-appointed 'researcher' position has kind of ceased that kind of behaviour from me, tbh.

What's this? Please don't tell me this is Matt Le Tissier type research.

[thisGRAEME]

Just now, Swello said:

What's this? Please don't tell me this is Matt Le Tissier type research.

Just don't look at his twitter, do yourself a favour.

[well fan for life]

Also, underrated moment of the game was when Hearts chucked on Kuol who is a flying machine and first time he got the chance to run at us Butcher done his best to boot him into the Tim Hortons car park. No sure he touched the ball after that tbh. 

[CoF]

22 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Just don't look at his twitter, do yourself a favour.

He offsets it with how wholesome his other grift is though..
 

https://johnsuttonmodels.co.uk

[Swello]

16 minutes ago, Yoshi-91 said:

Holy f**k what a difference in effort, unreal, even seen KVV tracking back and putting in tackles, had to pinch myself. I said it after Wednesday but yesterday bolsters the question of WTF must have been going on under Hammell?

I think all managers in a failing situation - not just Hammell in particular - end up with tunnel vision and lose the objectivity that you need to spot problems and work out how to fix them. In effect, it's easier for an outsider (sometimes even supporters) to spot obvious stuff in that situation and that is what Hammell initially did with Alexander's team and it's what is happening now. 

Apart from very few exceptions - football management at our level always looks like slow motion failure to me - it's just about how long it takes to get from the initial positivity to the last days in the bunker and unfortunately for Hammy, with him it was no time at all. Other than the money, I genuinely don't understand the attraction of football manager as a job - player, yes but not manager.