welldaft Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said: Clearly they felt that but you then wonder what the plan was. Say we'd made it past Sligo, you still can't sack him by that logic. Is it considered a turnaround worth backing him after all in the window? Do that and you've got him till at least October, if not the WC break. Maybe he'd have turned it round - with SOD, and possibly others, the dressing room and fresh faces in maybe it'd have worked. But say it didn't - was the assumption we could then bin him and recover to avoid relegation? Alternatively was the plan to starve him of resources until he chucked it himself? But then never mind looking for a new manager we'd barely have had a squad had he stumbled past August. I have a lot understanding for the board who frequently have to make marginal decisions and get abused for it from reactionaries without the facts. However, you need to say that how this season has gone had a large feel of inevitability about it and comes down to the fact we bottled making the tough decision in summer/eating humble pie on his extension. Had we bulleted him the morning after the Celtic game we could have presented it mutually, he'd have been applauded out (ish) and we'd have been on the hook for a lot of cash but less than we'd have got back for beating Sligo. Alternatively back him and at least see if there's a chance of redemption. Doing what we did by splitting the difference was largely destined to turn out like this. As I said I think the contract / compensation had played a large part in any decision making process. Relieve him of his duties and my understanding is that he would have been due the remainder of his contract. The small fact that Alexander was the one who said it was time for a change meant we paid out a lot less. I also agree with your points. There were warning signs galore. But I still maintain that the Board are more culpable for us being out of the Scottish cup this season that the Conference league. Just my opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, Neil86 said: I'm surprised there aren't Serie A teams being linked with Max Johnstone considering the success of the full backs that have went over there. Notice Brighton are the latest club interested apparently. Chances of holding onto him are certainly lessening. Probably true. Best for the club if he moves to a Premiership team as we get more in compensation if I recall. Maybe a loan back as well as he is unlikely to play for Brighton anytime soon. Surprised we had never thought to offer him a contract before now. Maybe we did. Maybe he will stay to get more game time and do a Turnbull. Unlikely to be less interest in him after another half/full season playing for Motherwell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie McSquackle Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Supposedly his main priority before was first team games. Just stay here for a bit Max. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 10 hours ago, capt_oats said: Aye, it was Cardiff earlier on today as well. Far play, his agent is grafting like f**k. I look forward to the ‘exclusive’ Bayern Munich and Barcelona links tomorrow. Is this his only spell in the Motherwell first team? I appreciate he's had various loan spells at QoS, amongst others. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, welldaft said: As I said I think the contract / compensation had played a large part in any decision making process. Relieve him of his duties and my understanding is that he would have been due the remainder of his contract. The small fact that Alexander was the one who said it was time for a change meant we paid out a lot less. I also agree with your points. There were warning signs galore. But I still maintain that the Board are more culpable for us being out of the Scottish cup this season that the Conference league. Just my opinion. Yeah but the remainder of his contract would have been very nearly matched by what we would have made by beating Sligo. Agree on Raith but again on the board 'feeling' I can see why they felt they couldn't act before Casey and Butcher had even made their debuts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jagfox said: Is this his only spell in the Motherwell first team? I appreciate he's had various loan spells at QoS, amongst others. Aye. Alexander gave him his debut when he was 17 and we had an injury crisis in the 20/21 season but this is his first established run. He joined the club in June 2020 so in that time he's had Robinson, Alexander, Hammell plus whoever we hire next as his first team manager. It kind of feels like his development hasn't been helped by the amount of flux we've seen in senior positions. It's all been a bit of a mess and if you believe the rumours there was a bit of friction with Alexander apparently not showing enough *trust* in Academy players in general. Unlike someone like say, Allan Campbell, who got his debut then dropped out for a couple of months before firmly establishing himself in the first team it's never really been that clear what the plan has been with Johnston. A part of that may well be that the Reserves league is a complete fucking shitshow though. As I say, he made his debut in the Covid season, was loaned out to QoS 21/22 but picked up an injury for the 2nd half of that one. Then was loaned out to Cove for the first half of this season after Alexander fell out with SOD, signed McGinn as a replacement before being emptied himself after Sligo which left us with 3 right backs. He was being linked with Championship clubs as far back as last summer so his Mr 20% getting his name in the papers isn't anything new here although going by the reporting from the AGM last month Hammell was apparently confident that he'd sign a new deal. In fairness I can't say I blame him for holding off on committing on anything as there's a legitimate question of what the f**k is actually going on at the club in terms of senior positions and general direction. Edited February 21, 2023 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 6 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Aye. Alexander gave him his debut when he was 17 and we had an injury crisis in the 20/21 season but this is his first established run. He joined the club in June 2020 so in that time he's had Robinson, Alexander, Hammell plus whoever we hire next as his first team manager. It kind of feels like his development hasn't been helped by the amount of flux we've seen in senior positions. It's all been a bit of a mess and if you believe the rumours there was a bit of friction with Alexander apparently not showing enough *trust* in Academy players in general. Unlike someone like say, Allan Campbell, who got his debut then dropped out for a couple of months before firmly establishing himself in the first team it's never really been that clear what the plan has been with Johnston. A part of that may well be that the Reserves league is a complete fucking shitshow though. As I say, he made his debut in the Covid season, was loaned out to QoS 21/22 but picked up an injury for the 2nd half of that one. Then was loaned out to Cove for the first half of this season after Alexander fell out with SOD, signed McGinn as a replacement before being emptied himself after Sligo which left us with 3 right backs. He was being linked with Championship clubs as far back as last summer so his Mr 20% getting his name in the papers isn't anything new here although going by the reporting from the AGM last month Hammell was apparently confident that he'd sign a new deal. In fairness I can't say I blame him for holding off on committing on anything as there's a legitimate question of what the f**k is actually going on at the club in terms of senior positions and general direction. I would imagine the sight of us buying another senior right back in the summer would have added to the difficulty in getting him to sign a new contract as it would have looked like he was behind both O'Donnell and McGinn - but the picture has changed a lot obviously as he's now seemingly the first choice right back. The most frustrating thing for me was the player is clearly ready for 1st team football - he should have been in the plans for this season rather than another loan. In terms of his future career, it would seem to me that following the Campbell route to a 2nd tier english club (after a 100 games with us ) as a first team player is more sensible than ending up a (well paid) afterthought in a Premier league club's player bank. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu92 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 18 hours ago, Sortmeout said: Nothing like making people feel old. I don’t quite remember Allan Johnston breaking through but certainly do Lee Miller and Craig Beattie. Think Beattie actually scored a last minute equalizer/winner in a 4-3 or 4-4 Well Celtic game on the opening day of a season back in the day. I was actually mascot that day, probably not as old as some on here but still makes me feel old looking back... 16 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said: We should use Mckinstry as a cautionary tale for youth prospects. If you get too big for your boots and go down South you'll get homesick, come back and get benched for your cheek. On McKinstry, I noticed that he posted a picture on Instagram of what looked to be him looking pretty dejected post-match. Thought it a weird thing to post just hours after we'd beaten Hearts, but just went looking for it there and he's since deleted it. Hope I'm wrong but came across a bit like he was taking the huff at not getting a game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, stu92 said: On McKinstry, I noticed that he posted a picture on Instagram of what looked to be him looking pretty dejected post-match. Thought it a weird thing to post just hours after we'd beaten Hearts, but just went looking for it there and he's since deleted it. Hope I'm wrong but came across a bit like he was taking the huff at not getting a game. Good. I want players unhappy at not playing. Hopefully he channels it in the right way in training this week. It's harsh on McKinstry but he's not getting back in after two wins with the new formation. He's one of the very few who could hold their heads high after the Hammell shitshow, but he'll remain a very good option from the bench if we need him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 Some reserve team that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Manhattan Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 7 minutes ago, Swello said: Some reserve team that. Bloody hell! Doesn't look much like a 3-5-2, though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobby Dossar Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 2 hours ago, capt_oats said: Aye. Alexander gave him his debut when he was 17 and we had an injury crisis in the 20/21 season but this is his first established run. He joined the club in June 2020 so in that time he's had Robinson, Alexander, Hammell plus whoever we hire next as his first team manager. It kind of feels like his development hasn't been helped by the amount of flux we've seen in senior positions. It's all been a bit of a mess and if you believe the rumours there was a bit of friction with Alexander apparently not showing enough *trust* in Academy players in general. Unlike someone like say, Allan Campbell, who got his debut then dropped out for a couple of months before firmly establishing himself in the first team it's never really been that clear what the plan has been with Johnston. A part of that may well be that the Reserves league is a complete fucking shitshow though. As I say, he made his debut in the Covid season, was loaned out to QoS 21/22 but picked up an injury for the 2nd half of that one. Then was loaned out to Cove for the first half of this season after Alexander fell out with SOD, signed McGinn as a replacement before being emptied himself after Sligo which left us with 3 right backs. He was being linked with Championship clubs as far back as last summer so his Mr 20% getting his name in the papers isn't anything new here although going by the reporting from the AGM last month Hammell was apparently confident that he'd sign a new deal. In fairness I can't say I blame him for holding off on committing on anything as there's a legitimate question of what the f**k is actually going on at the club in terms of senior positions and general direction. He’s been at the club since he was 12 years old 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 I'm pretty annoyed we've let this happen with MJ 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said: He’s been at the club since he was 12 years old Not according to the official site: https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/player/max-johnston/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al B Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 He definitely came up through the academy but June 2020 is when he turned pro, I'm assuming that's what the club class as having "joined". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 18 minutes ago, Busta Nut said: I'm pretty annoyed we've let this happen with MJ As am I, particularly after we had a let off with Turnbull, but we've no idea if we offered him a long-term deal before and he said one-year tops to keep his options open. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropy Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Swello said: Some reserve team that. If I knew where to look I may have made it along to this one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Al B said: He definitely came up through the academy but June 2020 is when he turned pro, I'm assuming that's what the club class as having "joined". Aye. I'm fairly certain the official profiles for the likes of Turnbull, Hastie, Campbell, Scott etc had the years they joined the academy like. Actually, here's McKinstry's: https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/player/stuart-mckinstry/ 10 minutes ago, ropy said: If I knew where to look I may have made it along to this one. I mean, they Tweeted about it this morning. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited February 21, 2023 by capt_oats 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu92 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 MJ joined us when he was 12. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisGRAEME Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 12 minutes ago, stu92 said: MJ joined us when he was 12. Got the badge in, nice. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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